http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle6973147.ece

What do you think of it?

I really find it hard to believe.

In June Laura Ling & Euna Lee were sentenced to 12 years of hard labor, luckily they were released

Some time in May they reportedly tested an underground nuclear bomb the size of the bomb dropped over Hiroshima, and now they want to make a "nuclear-free peninsula".

I would really like to see a "nuclear-free peninsula" and "lasting peace system on the Korean Peninsula" but I don't think it will happen.

Look, if the USA went all out and used its full power against 'ANY' country It would be no contest, that's the truth.

North Korea, Is in a terrible state, maybe they will be brought to heel, who knows, but I think their previous allies and neighbours have had just about enough of their threatening and Nuclear posturing.

They should shut up, before they get a good slapping.

I am sure this is disingenuous at best.

Nice attitude. Bring them to heel, make them do what we say when we say it. Last time somebody tried to make the world do things their way by force people that didn't particularly like each other joined forces against the aggressor and we had six years of global war.

I'm always amazed that we are up in the air over these "evil renegade states" that have a nuclear weapon or two. Oh, how could they?

How easily we forget the main problem, the two belligerent countries with huge deposits of nuclear weapons that could really mess up the entire world. The United States and Russia.

How like bullies to pick on the little guys and ignore the big tough guys, cause you know you can't beat them.

Sure North Korea might make a few bombs on the side and might even shoot them at their enemies. Most likely most of us won't be directly affected. Obviously very sad for who it does hit. Unfortunately if/when the big boys get upset and start shooting their wad, we will all feel it in a very bad way.

If a non-aggressive country like Switzerland led the opposition against North Korea I would respect the action much more. When the only country that used atomic weapons on another civilization cries foul, I find it a bit hard to sympathize.

Excellent post. Bravo.

i happens with this country over and over and over, only when they need something, or have something to bargain with (like reporters or hikers for example) do they want to act their age. When they get whatever it is that they want, they go right back back to being a$holes.

I don't buy it.

Great Idea....Appeasement, right?

OK, So It didn't work with Adolf, but lets give it another go, who knows?

I'm afraid, being 'Mr Nice Guy' with dictators just serves to feed their egos.

The whole point about the US / Russia axis is that they are constrained by M.A.D. - Mutually Assured Destruction.

This virtually guarantees that neither will fire the first salvo.

North Korea, Iran et al however are a different kettle of fish. They are secretive and pursue their own agendas.

It is not beyond the realms of reality that a nuclear empowered Iran, under a particularly extreme fundamentalist leader could decide to fire off a couple of nukes at Israel, in the name of Islam and the almighty Allah.

Likewise, the N Korean leadership is eccentric and unpredictable, to say the least, and could well retaliate to some imagined encroachment on it's territory with Nuclear weapons.

To say that "it's nothing to do with us, we won't be affected" is simplistic. Any outbreak of nuclear aggression will draw the rest of the world in, the Western nuclear powers more than anyone else. Do you really think that America, Russia, UK, France, Israel etc would just stand by and wring their hands if something happened?

No, allowing rogue states to develop nuclear weapons is akin to giving a loaded gun to an immature and petulant child. We don't want to go down that road - it will lead to disaster.

Very nice post Nisakiman, I whole heartedly agree.

Very true. Australia will be second behind the USA to go to war. Australia is the only country to go to war with the USA in every war that's involved the U.S. for the last century.

Canada, actually. I'd say overall your country always had a better relationship with us than the USA.


Anyways, I wouldn't really believe this crap. I'm kinda just shrugging right now because north korea is so unpredictable. Whether they mean it or not, it doesn't matter because nobody is going to really trust them no matter what they say, when they have such an extreme retard running their country. They're probably just saying this so the US will stop watching them and kim jong il can go back to throwing his own feces at the wall while testing underground nukes.

Canada didn't fight with the USA in Vietnam.

Yes, Canada received US draft dodgers as they disagreed strongly with the Vietnam war. I didn't know that about Australia though. What a limp country to just follow the States all the way. I thought they stood up more to the States. I believe New Zeeland does.

you are lost.....the big boys as you call them [the U.S. at least] are shooting their wad right now in 2 wars
and for the most part[not all..........after all it is war] only the bad guys are getting screwed up
now if the U.S. was so irresponcable we could just level both countrys and be done with it.................is that what you want??

I hope not
and I'm not saying we are entierly right either.............but hey at least when we fight we try to avoid killing women and childern................I know some will say but yet you still do!!

well if you don't hide behind women and childern and shoot at us we won't shoot back.........and your family won't get shot
simple fight like men ...............not gangsters or punks

Sorry I wasn't clear. When I said "shoot their wad" I was specifically talking about nuclear weapons. And it won't be just one country doing it, they'll all get into the action. That's when we will all feel it in a big way. I'm not crazy about these little countries having the bomb, that's for sure. But I know that when everyone gets to shooting their H-bombs, we're in bad shape.

Personally I don't think North Korea will be a major player in the nuclear war. Even if India and Pakistan have it out the world H-bomb dominoes might not fall. But I believe if the bombs hit the middle east then that could signal WW3. Most middle-eastern countries are not friendly with Israel, and Israel has the ear of the USA and the USA has the power to end mankind. Russia probably has this power too.

If these big H-bomb holders could keep their cool while small H-bomb holding countries actually use theirs then we would have hopes as mankind. This scenario has yet to be played out.

I am glad to see such interest in matters and well thought out responses for the most part. I would have to agree with some of you here that MAD prevents the US and Russia not to mention China from throwing down. Thats right China.. They have had the bomb since the 50's and now have more than capable delivery vehicles. "shenzhou 7" They have also just announced a ground launched mid flight missile interceptor reminiscent of our scud busters the patriot. To achieve this is a technological feet in and of itself. I wonder if it is in response to US arms shipments to Taiwan or in case Kim gets a little Alzheimer's and forgets who his friends are.

Nuclear proliferation is here to stay. Check the most dangerous country in the world. With a citizen ship that is on the brink of turning on the government and the assassination of ZIA as well as highly motivated and battle hardened Islamists. Pakistan could easily put nuclear devices into the hands of not one but many small independent factions that hailed from nowhere and answered to their "god" (meaning their perception of religion) MAD and NUTS are no longer theory's used to control other states but descriptive words to define international threat levels.

Need more proof? India is the US's best ally in the region with the largest english speaking democracy in the world. Yet the US gives more money and aid to Pakistan, India's nuclear rival. Think cold war on the subcontinent and remember the Mumbai attacks.

But I digress, back to NK. Yes their nuclear weapons are used more for a bargaining chip than anything else as someone has already pointed out. As far as attacking the South??

Great input guys!!!

couple of points I would make broadly rather than quoting from specific posts.

1. The United States is still at war with North Korea, we have an Armistice, which is a fancy way of saying a cease fire. So when NK starts playing these games we have to assume we are the intended target, now in the last few years they have been playing with building ICBMs, as an American I can not tolerate this and if the situation deteriorates further, I would support military action.

2. There is a misconception around the world that we are bogged down in the 2 wars we are fighting in the Middle East. These are expeditionary campaigns, we went to liberate not conquer. These wars basically have the same problem as Vietnam, we are not fully engaged, the war isn't a pressing issue on our minds day to day, its been almost a decade of business as usual at home. Unlike Vietnam there isn't even that big of an anti war movement to keep us thinking about it.

2.5.When push comes to shove we could start another Hot conflict any where we choose to. We are not rationing resources due to the war and no factories have been commandeered by the government to build war machines, and Americans are not turning out by the tens of thousands a day to volunteer. We could wage that kind of fight for a decade if we had to. The leaders of North Korea ( and a few other nations) know this and that fact, in my opinion, is a far greater deterrent than our nuclear arsenal.

3. Please tell me of another invasion in history were the invading forces have went so far out of their way to not take life, not just civilian. It is sad that innocent civilians die in conflict, unfortunately it is unavoidable, but please, some credit is due. No one has made us be nice about this, it truly is our will, as the U.N. found out no one has the power to make us do any thing other than our own will.
After 9/11/01 we could have declared war on all of the nations who harbor and support terrorists. We could have laid waist to them and left them to fend for themselves. Who would have stopped us?

4. It would be great if we could do away with all the nukes in the arsenals of the US, the former Soviet states and China. The problem is that those Nations would never agree because with out nukes we could destroy them and if they have nukes we have to. So M.A.D. is still very much a factor in world politics today.

5. Only when China has finally had enough of North Korea's crap will this end as the NKs are almost exclusively dependent on the Chinese who refuse to enforce the U.N. trade embargos against NK.

Wow!!! I dont have much to say. As in previous threads about similar issues I have almost Identical thoughts to Twoplus. But I just had to stick my nose in and say thank you to all those who posted here. This is one of the best reads I have had in the BR for sometime. Every one had well thought out and researched posts thank you all.