i Know this does not effect a lot of Darksiders but this debate keeps poping its head up every now and then

and its here again a big name tv host ray Martin has put has name behind it to have our flag changed this is what he has come out said today LINK

this LINK LINK is a Arguments in favour of changing the flag & Arguments in favour of keeping the flag Etc


IMO

i would no way change our flag it has been our flag for over a hundred years we have had man and woman DIE

fighting under our flag, ray Martin has come out it say its colonial that's all part of our history and changing our great

flag because of a connection to the British our for what ever other reason is not going to change our history.

Darksiders could you imagine people wanting to change your flag that you have had for hundreds of years

it does not sit well with me, let me know what you think

Australia has the British queen as their monarch, until that changes I don't se the flag being changed.

You may be right but that didn't stop the Australian Anthem from being changed .

You are right freeze , the topic of changing our flag does kept popping up for debate . I guess the people who support a Republic for Australia will continue to push it . I for one don't like the idea of changing Australia's flag as stated to many people have given their lives to defend and protect their country serving under that very flag . I guess the day that Australia becomes a Republic and cuts it's ties with the Queen as such then the union jack will more than likely go off the flag . Unfortunately the younger generation don't get taught the history of Australia in schools much anymore or for that matter understand what the flag means to the people who fought under it . So i guess one day in a referendum the flag may well get changed

yes true dEVIANT i dont think they well get it changed ether but they are trying to push for a referendum bring it on

im sure most dont want it anyway

but what gets me is when they go on about this new identity we need. grrrrrrrrrr

Im not australian so maybe i got a distorted view on it but im gonna trow in my 2 cents. The flag you have now, isnt that a large part of your historical heritage? As Hsv said, a lot of ppl fought and died for that flag. To me it seems a bit like denying your history in a way. Like the union jack in it, the way i see it (and this is personal and may be a bit distorted since i dont have the full background info), all it shows is that your people are descendants of the UK....and lets face it, you are. At least, it started out that way. And if thats the case, i dont see why you wouldnt have a union jack in your flag, seems perfectly logical. You can look at the flag and see the union jack in a political way and bring the monarch arguement, or you can see it as an historical one, that you were british before becomming independant, and again, its a correct fact. And if you have the queen as your monarch or not, is rather irrelevant if you only take the historical view on the flag. The fact that the flag now is different from the union jack is, for me at least, proof you are a different nation.

No one has ever come up with a better design than what we have now. The other designs put forward are pretty ordinary to say the least and more like vomit inducing imo.

Canada changed their flag and has only been around since 1965. Every flag before that was the Union Jack or had the Union Jack on it. Go ahead, change your flag. It will just take everyone time to adjust to it. I think Australia has a recognizable flag. If you remove the Union Jack, it will just be stars.

thanks for reply LaoTzu i think i have made this clear i do not support flag change

i would fight tooth and nail to keep the flag as is i love the flag the history it makes as a country

as we are even if we went to a republic i still can not see why we could not still keep the flag

as we are just my opinion i just feel so strongly about this issue

I really couldnt give two hoots, what I do care is that it took me forever to learn the bloody flag in primary school and the thought of relearning it would annoy me greatly .

This would also cause confusion in text books. I remember doing Business studies at school and the text books were irrelevant now. They mentioned something about a 'production boom'? :P

I wonder how the aborigines feel about it?

Text books honestly would be the last thing to consider. Many, many text books become irrelevant each year, on a wide variety of subjects. I found a few books about computing the other day. They were from 1986, imagine how much they have changed! But I digress....

I'm for changing the flag, providing the design is good. I'm not keen on anyhting that involves bringing the indigenous flag into it - I recently discovered that flag is trade marked.

People are often quick to throw out the "people died for that flag" line in an attempt to conjure up heroic images of the ANZAC. But remember, people were killed under that flag too. Terrible things were done under that flag as well. For every brilliant tear jerking nationalistic pride inducing prose people can throw out in order to keep the flag, theres other arguments that make you feel horrible about acts that have happened whilst that flag has flown.

People didn't die for the flag at all - they died for the country, and for the values that the country broadcasted throughout the world.

The flag might be the banner you wave to show you're from that place, but it is not the ideal itself. The values, ideals and conduct are more important than some colours on some cloth.

If the boxing kangaroo wasn't trade marked, i'd be all for that!

Why shouldn't the indigenous flag be incorporated into any new design? I doubt any trademark claimed on a flag would hold water legally.


Most flags are considered as an icon that represents a country, its identity and its ideals, the values of a country are considered to be a component of the flag as well albeit not a physical one.



Would a boxing kangaroo reflect the ideals, and history of your country. Would it be an emblem to bind the citizens of Australia together with pride and purpose whilst reminding them what it means to be Australian? If it does then it gets my vote.

Don't get me wrong - I feel that the flag should incorporate Australias indigenous history, just not that particular emblem. It is a political symbol that was come up with late in the 20th century. It's not considered a flag that represents a race of people, or a country as such. It was used a symbol that aboriginal people protested under, and whilst that has been an important part of indigenous australian history, it is not the be all and end all of their culture. I feel it would be a shame to have indigenous australians represented on our flag by that emblem and it's connotations alone. It's also trade marked design that the inventor uses to draw an income. I doubt people would be allowed to use it anyway - he would want compensation. He has already blocked many people from using it - recently he blocked Google from using it on their main page, and it was a question of dollars.


A flag does represent a country, and it is the countrys' people that has the ideals - so in a roundabout way you're right. I still see it as a loose connection though. I can be a proud Australian and broadcast to the world what Australia is about without that image. In fact if you can't combine the identity with the notion then the flag is useless. Waving a flag about isn't going to put those values and ideals into the air - it just shows where you're from. The individual or the group waving the flag is how those values are really advertised.

If we use your exmple though, then our current flag is a continual insult to indigenous people - demonstrating to them Australias ideals regarding a fair go, whilst simultaneously reminding them that our colonial heritage disregarded their presence here and applied terra nullius.


Probably not for everyone. The boxing kangaroo is really a sporting flag that to me sums up playing hard but playing fair, always giving it your best etc. I remember it from when back when the west indies were dominant in cricket in the Border years where we slowly clawed our way to the top.

It is also interesting that you have thrown your name into this one Badog - being from South Africa, what is your view on how the process of changing your national flag has effected your country. To be honest, your old flag looked pretty average, but your current one looks the business.

From what you say I also wouldn't class this as a flag, more of a political emblem so it would have no place on a flag. For me a flag is a unified symbol of a country so political symbols would have no place on it.


I think this depends on the mindset of the country at the time. If the country is going to war against an oppressor or enemy then the connection would be a lot less loose than if a country is going through prosperous peaceful times and the need for the people to be mobilized behind one ideal and the flag a representation of this is a lot less.



I don't see shame in a combination of a countries past and present being depicted in their flag. The combination can emphasise how far it has come. The colonial presence in Australia is a major part of its history and for better or worse an era on route to the country it s today.



The flag in SA was replaced at the end of the apartheid era in the mid nineties. The new flag represents the various peoples coming together. It was an event that didn't carry the enthusiasm that you might have expected and hasn't been embraced as a symbol of hope or progress so much as the figure of Nelson Mandela himself. Maybe this was because he old flag or 'Prinsevlag' was never really a symbol of apartheid, it was a symbol of the Union after the Anglo-Boer war.

The Prinsevlag would be a closer example to the Australian flag. It was introduced in the late 1920's during the first Afrikaans government after the Boer War. Heavily influenced by the old Dutch flag it also contained a Union Jack, Oranje-Vrystaat vlag and Die Vierkleur in the center. When SA became a Republic in the sixties the flag remained unchanged (all the way through to the mid nineties).

I don't have affiliations with the old SA flag, I settled here in the early nineties.

lighten up Badog...no one wants to read all that