So many of the threads on the BR are just to deep and serious right now, while this one could turn that way I would ask people to see it for what it is and not turn this into a debate on religion. To those who are religious please do not take this as an attack on you. I am not a believer please respect that right.

This is a study of history and modern society with speculations on the future based on that.

All of the big religions today have their start in times of great social change and injustice.

Jesus and Buddha were political dissenters, Mohamed and Abraham wear both "freedom fighters" of a sort.

We are living today in one of those ages of great social change and injustice in a world so full of political dissenters and "freedom fighters" you can't throw a rock with out hitting one.

So, my 2 part question is this.

Will we see the rise of a new Messiah/leader out of one of these conflicts that will spark the next great religion that people will prescribe to for millennia to come?

Or

Have we reached a point with science that they would be disproved and dismissed out of hand? They would get no support from the established religions, as is the case with all Messiahs/Leaders listed above, it would be easier to use science to debunk them. (it is my opinion that tradition is the only way the established religions survive in the face of science)

OK that's it.

A leader is mostly someone that is born out of a need. Specially when there is a group with a need ready to follow. As you pointed out many leaders came. So i would definitly say that new leaders will rise. It be religous or political. Not to give bad example but sertain times also gave the rise of people who were able to influence the masses like Hitler,Stalin,Lenin, Che.

I gave these names as example, not to offence anybody. The only problem is that the so called leader can be good or bad.

I like the way you make the connection between religious movements and political movements. I have seen the argument a few times that political movements are the religious movements of today.

I also believe your statement to be fact even though it would offend many religious people as they would have a severe reaction to you pointing out Jesus and Hitler springing from similar circumstance.

Don't worry about offending though as this is not a faith based discussion I will be tapping the mods to enforce the rules of engagement I set.

Cheers PH8L...

If you ask me it's all gray area anyhow...ONe leader can be a hero to one group, but can be public enemy for a other group.

Bush and Obama are both proof of this. Both have been touted as our salvation and both have been accused of being the Devil/Anti Crist. Look though as Bushes term of power has ended he is slipping fast from the collective mind as will Obama after his term. I think to find a true Messiah we have to look way out side of American politics as any one presidents achievements can be so quickly undone by his heir to the throne, they have a short shelf life.

I would also like to point out the tendencies of people to treat the present like a static finality. Like time runs in a line up until today and ends. It doesn't end we are not at some point where things will not progress. The future is an endless number of choices waiting to be made and the choices become the line.

Evolution for example, we generally treat it as we have reached the end of evolution and that every species we lose puts a void in the world. The world is still evolving around us, our own species is evolving, America is the proof, the more the barriers of race come down the closer to being a new hybrid race the people of this country become.

This applies in politics and religion, they evolved, we traced that but we tend to take a sense of finality about it. We have a religion and a political system suited to every body, right? Democracy is so perfect it is the last system there will be, right? Your religion is the right one and will always be here right?

The larger picture of of history and common sense say bunk, but we persist with this glitch in the human collective.

This discussion demands an open mind to the shelf life of our own mark on the world.

Now as my other work is done and my boss can rest assured the company will still be there Monday, it is time for me to dip for a BBQ. Suds and Sauce a plenty.

With Earth's population growing rapidly and global warming threatening the water/food supply of a huge percentage of people, there will undoubtedly be a global war for resources at some point. Mass manipulation has become harder in internet times, but the internet can also act as a propaganda channel, given the 'right' circumstances, and I'm 100% sure that the plans for doing such a switch have already been studied/prepared in many countries.

There are plenty of folks willing to be a messiah, and there are even more folks willing to submit themselves to any self-proclaimed prophet. Megachurches full of them, in fact. I think any messiah is smart enough to understand the damage he/she is doing by putting blinders on so many people, but their self-righteous or narcissistic nature finds justifications for it.

It doesn't take much to scare someone into a more simpler state of survival logic, so I wouldn't take the longevity of our seemingly more intelligent/diverse societies for granted. "In the end", it'll just be a game of numbers like wars used to be: the scared-stupid will outnumber and outcast the fearless. The Bush administration was a scary modern example of that already.

Anyway, I'm your Prophet of Doom -- I compel you to follow me or die!!

we will see a new Messiah/Leader and science/scientists will do its best to dismiss them. i mean that is wat science is .... a way to try n explain the unexplainable.

many will come forward but few will b a Great Leader like those of the past. its goin to b a major turnin point in this lifetime that will bring forward the next messiah.....b it good or bad . but normally there is both good and bad. cuz there has to b a choice sum alliance, sum form of opposition