i dont know if you mind aboute greeks(im one for sure) but we got finance probs here and we gonna ask from eu money again...waitin your polite opinion guyz!

its terrible what is happening there, but its just a precursor of what is to come, just about everywhere elsr i the world. My advice to your government is the same as to mine, quit giving money to people who donot work for it, and tell organized labor to goto hell. That wouold be a good start.

Greece has an unstable economy for the same reason as many other countries, because the people as well as their government has been spending money that was never rightfully theirs. They are now at the stage where the whole house of cards is on the brink of collapse.

Measures to restore financial stability are going to be painful. There's nothing worse than having to give up something you've had for a long time, even if was never actually yours as such. I see the proposed rescue plan has already caused protests and some unrest. The problem is any civil action that has a negative effect on Greece's functioning as a country will only add to the economic problems it already has. The World Bank and the EU will only help Greece out if Greece is seen to be prepared to take the necessary steps no matter how painful they are.

Hope it hangs on for a month or so longer. My daughter and 20 other students are coming that way to study until early June

Simple (as possable) Explination as to why the EURO-ZONE country's have to bail out greece!

1. Greece owe's more money than it get's per year, I.E. it's bankrupt
2. Greece is in a single euro currency
3. Germany, France, Spain, italy, and another 20 odd countries are also in the euro.
4. so if greece is allowed to go bankrupt it will cause a MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger recession in the euro countries.
5. SO IT IS CHEAPER TO GIVE GREECE 150BILLION EURO than let it go bankrupt.

6. if greece is thrown out of the euro and suspended from the eu we can refuse to give them 150billion, let them go bankrupt, cause no recession in the rest of europe, and sleep a little better at night,

But if we throw greece out what happens when
Ireland/Italy/Hungary/Portugal (can be any of these 4 that go bankrupt next) do go bankrupt??
Throw them out
Soon the E.U. will just be just France/Spain/Germany/Italy
Just the way they want it

From what I've read about Greece's financial situation it never really met the requirements to join the Euro in the first place.

Yea but it was also 1 of the orignal member states of the E.C.C/E.U so they couldn't be left out.
And they promised to clean up there finances (10 years ago)

Bailing out a country is infinitely better than bailing out a privately owned corporation.

As pointed out above, the root of the problem lies in Greece's membership of the Euro currency group. The "one size fits all" financial straightjacket was doomed from the start. To expect countries like Greece, Portugal, Spain etc to be able to exercise the same sort of fiscal control over their economies as highly industrialised (and wealthy) counries like Germany, Belgium and Holland was always destined to be a case of hope over experience.

The first casualty of Greece's adoption of the Euro was it's main income generator - tourism. Shortly after ditching the Drachma, prices started to rise steeply, rapidly becoming level with the rest of the Eurozone. Greece was no longer a cheap holiday destination, so people started going elsewhere, like Turkey. Same sunshine and beaches, but half the price.

Combine that with the fact that tax evasion is a national sport, the Civil service is a massive behemoth full of overpaid and underworked people who can't be sacked and have gold plated final salary pensions, and last but not least that Greece has no control over it's currency, in that it can't allow the currency to slide on the markets and thus reduce it's debt, and you end up with the mess we have now.

The loans agreed by the EU and the IMF won't be a panacea for the woes of Greece - there are too many strings attached, and the Greeks are going to really dig their heels in if the government tries to implement all the austerity measures they're proposing.

I'm already seeing the effects - my deisel bill for my van has increased by 30% ( that's € 40 - 50 a month more I must find) over the last few weeks, and will increase by another 10% soon. VAT has gone from 19% to 21%, and is set to go to 23% soon. But wages are to be capped. I honestly don't think the Greeks will wear it. Already we are seeing riots in Athens, and large scale strikes.

Best thing that could happen is for Greece to be ejected from the Euro, and I have a feeling that that is what will happen in the not too distant future.

Perhaps Northern European countries should offer retire-in-the-east/south plans whereby pensioners are given the option to retire in cheaper-labour countries and their families are given subsidized travel/visiting plans to visit once every couple months or so. The loss of jobs in the (costly) care sector would be compensated by the increase in transport jobs.

That's actually a pretty good idea! It could benefit all involved!

The proposed loans definitely aren't designed to alleviate the suffering, they're just going to give Greece a fighting change of staying in the Euro. The strings attached are harsh and are going to effect the Greek 'man on the street' the most. He's not at fault as much as the government's resistance to taking steps long before now.

There's one or two things going the way of Greece at the moment at least. Some of the big banks seem to be using the situation as some kinda weird publicity exercise and are voluntarily taking a very supportive stance and offering a helping hand....... for now.

The question in my mind is which country is next? Portugal? Ireland? Spain? Italy? even the UK which has been patting itself on the back because it's not adopted the Euro has a massive deficit that could put it in a similar position further down the line.

Edit
The incentives to get old people to relocate to another country would need to be considerable.

greece is just the begining!even if Eu just throw Greece from Euro the problem wont be resolved! $$ is waitin itn the corner and course USA hopes thats the best opportunity to so the union whos the big boss around! dont forget about China as well...so we surely need to be punished for the money we never deserve and just spent but think better and be clever!Eu doesnt have enemies inside for sure...

P.S
Combine that with the fact that tax evasion is a national sport, the Civil service is a massive behemoth full of overpaid and underworked people who can't be sacked and have gold plated final salary pensions, and last but not least that Greece has no control over it's currency, in that it can't allow the currency to slide on the markets and thus reduce it's debt, and you end up with the mess we have now.
sorry for Greeks(καλισπερα σε κανω add στα friends αν δεν σε πηραζει)

hmm Nisakiman thats sum interestin points. and the fact that tax evasion is a national sport really says alot about the control within the gov.

vat sucks all around... it will b implemented where i live soon, a country i grew up in now has it at 15%.

but i wanna comment on the leavin the EU..... i always wondered how that group currency waz goin to work out. and it does make sense....each country economy is different so stuff will hav to b regulated if everyone is usin the same money value.
but then wat happens if they do leave the EU....can they jus bring bak their currency, ?? i am sure it will take awhile to get bak to where they were b4

I live in an area which is essentially bankrupt although the games are still being played by the worthless politicians who see nothing but ways to spend even more money on even more worthless programs. Greece is simply the first act in a play which will be continued throughout the world in countries/states/regions where people have come to expect and demand things that they really have no means to pay for. The saddest part of all this is that we have the example of the former USSR and Eastern Europe along with Mao's failed experiment to show what happens when an increasingly smaller group is obligated to support a growing population of do nothings. Even today we see the example of Venezuela with food shortages, electricity blackouts, and chaos all of which has taken place in the last few years as a once productive element of society is ruined. I wish the people of Greece the best of luck but they must realize, like all of us, that the free ride is over.

will the rest of europe heed the warnings over this

if greece does fall down through strikes and riots like what we see on the news
how many other countrys will fall ,spain portugal italy the list can grow longer
how do u go about fixing a huge fook up like this ??
maybe all just give up on a united europe because its not going to work
ppl will lose there jobs so no tax from them
to help the bail out
so imf and europe give millions to greece it still goes tits up
so the rest of europe paying for years to come ummmm

so the EU and other places agree to giv greece 900Billion (no its not a typo u are seeing right BILLION)

u kno i always wondered how is it countries can "bailout" with millions...even billions of dollars.... thats jus more debt developin. how is that 900billion going to be repaid.

You know, this is something that has always rather perplexed me. Greece is getting this massive bailout from other countries, all of which are running a defecit. So where is the money coming from? Just about every country in the world is in debt to the tune of billions. Who are they borrowing from? Is it just going round in circles? Damned if I know!

Some G7 countries have had a GDP surplus for many years, Germany being the notable one.

I heard the other day that Greece's retirement age (maybe its just the state employee's)is 53 or 54 how the hell did they think that was going to work. Greece seems like a very week economy with no real industry or financial sector to bring them out of recession. They never really met the conditions to joint the euro but then neither did a lot of the eu country's Italy and Spain included.

I was prompted to do a little research as a result of this, and This rather interesting chart is what I came up with. Interestingly (these figures are not absolutely up to date), Germany is actually running a defecit of 2.28%. Norway, on the other hand, is running a massive surplus!

So we know where to go for a loan!

Looking at the same site, but measuring current account balance we find China at the top, and not surprisingly the States at the bottom! Germany is very strong and in the black as well. The stats are a little more up to date, 2007.

Even at that time Greece was suffering with a balance in the red of 44.4B, which is heavy for a small country. I remember before the Euro how prices were cheap in Italy with low Lira. Once they changed to Euros they also became much more expensive. It seems that the Euro does not help the revenue of countries with former weak currencies. The residents can cross Europe and have much better buying power, but this doesn't help much if their own economy is crashing and they have no money to spend!

I would say the Euro has caused financial upheaval and there is probably more on the horizon. It seems Euros are not so good for poorer countries. Does anyone know what happened in Ecuador when they took on the US dollar?

the hole prob is the BANK guys!do you know from where these bilions or trilions come??from loans!in our days ppl and countries loan from banks!
and thats the problem!!!we dont create money from gold or silver,we dont creat from work or industry,from enviromental sources!!!we create it from dept!!!!so i believe its not just a Greek prob(from sure Greece is a Banana Economy:P) but its an example how the world economy can collapse!!!

who ever is printing the money i would like a couple million in untraceable bills. thank you

i heard spain is in the process of doin sum cuts of their own.... wonder if riots will start after that.

Yeah, me too!

Greece is a testing model for a New World Order. As a member of the European Union and a standardized currency it would be in the front runners.

"Greece wanted, as a European country, to have "presence" in, and an impact on, the process towards European integration and the European model."


http://www.mfa.gr/www.mfa.gr/en-US/Europea...eece+in+the+EU/



It spends more than it takes in.

"This tragedy shows that a country grown accustomed to lavish government benefits does not willingly give them up. It is far too easy for politicians to dole out benefits without worrying about the consequences of paying for them later. "

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/m...-greek-deficit/



The countries who espouse the "One World Government" concept cannot let Greece fail. It must be saved at all costs to prove that One World Government is the Messiah. The U.S. president supports a bailout.

"Later, the White House released a printed statement saying of the IMF loan "We strongly support this effort to help restore stability to Greece and confidence to the global financial system."


http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/0...-greek-bailout/

Obama wants a One World Government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lsltxgrr_o&NR=1

A succinct and broadly correct analysis of the situation.

To allow Greece to succumb to the markets as a result of it's own profligacy would be to admit to the failure of "Le Grand Projet".

This is, of course, unthinkable.

The aim of "Big Government" (preferably without the inconvenience of silly distractions like elections and such - after all, the masses don't really understand these things, and can't be trusted to vote the "right" way) is to show the world how efficient and beneficial it is.

Failure is not on the agenda.

Greece has presented the Eurocrats with a nasty glitch in their plans, but nothing that can't be sorted by throwing lots of taxpayers money at it...

1984 is both in the past and in the future. We need to take care how much power we allow these unelected bodies to arrogate to themselves.

Thanks to dimpotan for the topic,as wellas you all guys for keeping us informated.

It is know that Greece Had always had disputes with Turkey.For that,we thought that the EU would offer us shelter, meaning that we would not have to get loans for buying military equipment,vehicles etc.However,our hopes never came to life,as we keep on loaning and buying.I agree that our politicians have exploited the money,as well as given part of it to their lessers,but the big part of the loans (from Germany)has gone out for weapons (from Germany).In fact we pay them with their own money!Of course,the interest is what they get as reward for making a loser out of us.

Thank you for