Having studied events in the middle east post-WWI, I cannot for the life of me see any justification of the existence of the state of Israel in its present form as a jewish state.

Try to convince me otherwise!

Depends who you ask. Ask the Palestinians and they'll say hell no. Ask the Isrealis and they'll say their country was there before but it was taken away and that Isreal is moses' promised land, promised by God no less. You can't argue with someone who says "God told me so" as a be all and end all. Personally I Think they should STFU and get on with their lives but who's gonna listen to me when there's killing to be done. Killing is the most popular passtime in the whole of human history. Things won't change any time soon. *sigh*

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-159.html

Scroll down to the creation of Israel. Just because is can be justified does not make it right.

Really, they should have learnt to be tolerant in the country, it wasn't theirs to have to be honest.

That state of Israel shouldn't exist. Zionists would take that to mean I want all the jews in Israel to die or something, but I certainly don't want that.

You can't just come in to a place and say "even though you live here now, the fact that our ancestors lived here thousands of years ago with your ancestors gives us the right to take the land from you".

But maybe world opinion might be better of Israel if they didn't treat the Palestinians like sub humans. America only supports their every move because AIPAC has so much power...

where should they live then?

I have no intention of trying to justify their existence cos to move them isn't feasible & would be tantamount to genocide......

Neither is there any point wasting time talking about the rights & wrongs because we really need to be focusing on the solutions and lets face it, the Palestinians can't agree amongst themselves so how on earth will they ever come to an agreement with Israel.

slightly off subject……….. I find it ironic that the same Arab counties who are so quick to condemn Israel's attacks on the Palestinians are now conspicuously quiet while the Palestinians are killing each other…. And the Palestinians themselves are trying to put the blame on Israel…. Can't imagine how they worked that one out.

Israel has undermined every Palestinian governing body. Israel wants lawlessness and disorder in Palestine because then they don't have to compromise on solutions.

There is a very simple solution. The U.S. needs to stop funding Israels existence this will force Israelis to either comprise, leave or die. Problem solved within ten years.

mmm... I'm not sure if I agree with that..... wasn't there gonna be an agreement at camp David? ..... was it Israel that refused to sign? ..the problem is what is your interpretation of compromise, nothing can be resolved in one foul swoop ..... there needs to be trust....

I feel a good opportunity was lost and as the consequence there's now all this misery....... surely any agreement is better than this? and things would of moved on from that agreement.

How do you compromise with a occupying power? A little playful dialogue to follow.

I have control of your country you have no rights but the ones I give you. You cannot resist I will call this terrorism and respond by bombing the homes of average families. If you want the worst land we will give it to you so long as you are good and do not resist. We are god's chosen people we have the right to govern you until we see fit. If years from now you are good we may allow you to have your own country within our borders but then again almost half of us don't want to give up any land so we will have to see.

I can not blame the Palestinians for not compromising from such a situation because I would not either. If you take my homeland away and try to give me an island to live on I will fight by whatever means I can.

Israel could not afford their security without the U.S..

Compromise can only come from two sides who want it, currently neither do. Israel has the security and power they will only be willing to give up scraps. Palestinians have neither and would only be able to compromise for scraps.

I am not anti Jew just feel the U.S. should not be taking sides, what we give to one we should give to the other.

All the weird arab states also support the palestinian government, so i would say it's not that bad that the US and mosts parts of Europe are on the side of Israel, otherwise there will happen a second Holocaust within a year.

but isn't this the problem.... you're still living in the past... yes you can have another 100 years of war, disagreement.. but what is that going to achieve exactly? more dead on both sides .. more hatred of each other ........

.......and I don't think the Palestinian are without support, Iran & other Arab state are providing arms etc. ...... and are you seriously saying that if the US withdrew support for Israel that would encourage Palestine & the other Arab states to come to a fair solution..... or any solution for that matter other than lead to the annihilation of Israel... there would be a blood bath, old scores settled etc. I think several Arab states are on record an saying Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet ....... faced with these sort of comments it would be absolutely irresponsible of the US to withdraw support.

You are right Iran gives Palestinians AK47s and we give Israelis F15s not exactly a fair fight.

The U.S. was irresponsible when it forced the creation of Israel through the U.N. at the opposition of every Arab country.

I am completely against war but both sides are determined to kill each other. "Sometimes the only time you can find peace is on the other side of war" I probably miss quoted slightly and don't remember who said this but in this situation nothing else applies.

It will take time for weapons and tanks to break down that will give Israel time to negotiate. I do feel the status quo is irresponsible, paying for the bullets that kill Palestinians. Of course we would allow any and all Israelis and Palestinians to immigrate to the U.S. before ending aid. Anyone who stays is an extremist for one side or the other and the world would be better off without Jew, Christian and Muslim extremists. In my not so humble opinion.

The Palestinians are just one injustice in Israel, check out the Bedouin Arabs that have their crops destroyed by Israel

The Bedouins have been in Israel alot longer than the Jews

Doesn't Iran provide missiles as well? ........ maybe the US was wrong but thats history...... and what is the point exactly of stating who did what, where & when? does it provide a solution? no ...... all it does is feed the hatred on both sides which leads to the lost of more innocent lives......... on both sides. The time for Israel to negotiate was reached at camp David, had Arafat signed he could of not only have saved thousands of lives but changed history .......... he missed the opportunity.

Wherever they want. America, Britain, Canada, wherever.

Just don't come into a place and create your own state there where other people live. You can live in their country if they want you to.



Well, the occupation of their land is the biggest thing in recent Palestinian history. Since it's bad, it has been the cause of a great deal of problems for the Palestinians.



Exactly.



America and most parts of Europe have so much more to give the Israelis then the Arab states do.

For example, the Lebannon vs Israel war last summer. Hezbollah got old soviet WWII rockets from Iran. Israel gets very modern bombs, fighter planes, and other things from America (and others, to a lesser extent). Fair? No.



How is the annihilation of Israel unfair in any way?

If someone comes and occupys your land, you want them gone. Period.



"[T]his regime that is occupying Jerusalem must be eliminated from the pages of history" (as Irans president really said) seems fair to me. Please note however that getting rid of the regime (state, government) does NOT equal killing the occupants of the land.

You cannot come into a place and put your own state there. If you do, that state should be eliminated.

So you mean this is the solution?

Yes, I think the state of Israel should be eliminated, and the Palestinians can have their land back. Jews should be allowed to live in Palestine if they want though.

Even if Arafat signed that agreement it would not have mattered. That agreement did not have the support of the Palestinian people and Arafat did not have control of them. Very likely his own people would have assasinated him for signing such an agreement.

Current events happen because of history. 911 happened because of U.S. history in the region. If you don't know the root cause of the problem how can you fix it? We will either have to kill all the Arabs that care or give back Palestine, short of those two choices we will have war in that region forever.

I understand you are trying to reason a solution but religous extremist are not reasonable. Any reasonable human being would have left long ago to live out their life in peace.

Well i think that the state of Palestine should be eliminated because they are the occupying power. Israel was before there already, and also the Bedouin Arabs[see BugZ post] were there before. So i really don't see any reason why the Palestines would live exactly there on that place where already 2 states were before

How is moving them tantamount to genocide? Not that i'm saying they should be moved, but that a jewish state in Palestine is ridiculous.



The problem with agreements, deals and so forth is that Israel refuses to even discuss some of the most important issues, namely the refugees, and the fate of Jerusalem. Without even discussion on these topics peace is impossible.



The amount of military and other aid from the US to Israel far outweighs all the aid that is given to the palestinians combined. The figures are estimated at approx. $90 billion in foreign aid, loans etc. See this article.


The reason I don't see how Israels existence is justified, has of course a lot to do with the way it came to be. It is a really nasty story, including terrorism (jewish, that is), genocide, population displacement, and since then a history of discrimination and repression of arabs in Israel. If this is the beacon of democracy in the Middle East, then we have a big problem. And to me, the idea of a state centered upon religion is also a bad idea. Like Iran. Saudi Arabia. And Israel.

But as I mentioned before, this conflict is unsolvable until Israel agrees to let refugees back in, or at least offer them reasonable compensation. We are talking about people who have lived in refugee camps since 1948. Interestingly, psychiatrists point to this fact in explaining the mentalities of suicide bombers. You have no prospect of education. You have no prospect of employment. You live in a camp, where your parents have lived since 1948, or alternatively your house just got bulldozed by the Israeli army. Your cousin just got shot for throwing rocks at a tank. The less you have to live for, the easier it is to sacrifice one self for the greater good.

The other problem with this conflict, is the current situation concerning Jerusalem. The international community still insists on UN control over this city, but Israel has annexed the eastern, arab part wich they have controlled since the 1967 war. They have also named it their capital, wich no country (including the US) recognises. Thus all embassies and such are located in the internationally recognised capital Tel Aviv. This is a good example of the arrogance of Israel. They have shown again and again that they are not a reasonable solution to the palestinian question. The creation of a truly secular state, with Jerusalem as its capital might be a solution. The problem is that as soon as you start arguing you're labeled an anti-semite, and todays zionists are evangelical christians who maintain that because it says so in the bible, Israel has every right to Palestine. But really, using a two thousand year old book of dubious origin, translated hundreds of time from language to language, streamlined through Lateran Councils and other church meetings? Come on! I refuse to accept that line of argument. "This is the word of God"?!? Well.... Prove it!

natasatan we agree.

The article you linked however is not substantiated. I do not doubt that Israel recieves more than is reported by our government but the total of 1.2 Billion annually is commonly accepted as the correct figure for direct aid (weapons) to Israel. Still way to much, however if we give that to Israel we should also give it to Palestine.

Very nice post.

I don't think ive ever heard that before.



A few thousand years ago there were Jews and Palestinians there together, but the Palestinians have been the major inhabitants for over a thousand years.

Just because the Jews were there a couple thousand years ago doesn't give them the right to it now.

Who is responsible for the refugee problem in the first place? Irrespective of the "classical" argument whether all or part of those refugees left the Israeli territory out of their own volition, it is clear that they left as a result of the war of 1948.

Whoever is responsible for that war is responsible for its refugees. We all know that the war of 1948 was launched by a coalition of Arab countries, under the auspices of the Arab League, with the declared intent to eradicate the fledgling Jewish state. That assault was in flagrant defiance of international law (a belligerent crossing of an international border, like the German invasion of Poland in 1939) and it was also in blatant violation of the 1947 UN resolution that recognized the establishment of the Jewish state. Consequently, the responsibility for the refugee problem rests fully on the Arab aggressor countries.

However, the Arabs who deny the legitimacy of establishing a Jewish state in an "Arab territory," claim that their military campaign was justified. It was certainly justified by Islamic law, which forbids conceding of any "Arab land" to infidels.

But if that Arab claim was accepted, then:

The legitimacy of the State of Israel is in question, in spite of its recognition by the USA, USSR and by the UN, as long as it has not been recognized by the militant neighboring Arab states.

If the 1948 attack was legally justified, then the responsibility for the refugees of that war would fall on Israel. In other words, any concession on the question of "right of return" would imply that the State of Israel is illegitimate and that the Arab failed campaign was legal and justified. Furthermore, if that campaign was legal and justified, so were also the Arab attacks in 1967 and 1973, and so is the Intifada in the last years. Arafat and his cohorts at Camp David understood this very well when they refused to budge on the issue of the "right of return."

Any Arab concession on this crucial issue implies legitimacy of the Jewish state and an end to "justifiable" attacks on it, whether by military invasion or by terrorist attacks. This is the true reason for the Arab's refusal to settle "Palestinian" refugees in their countries. A concerted official Arab effort would have been an admission of responsibility for the 1948 war and would legitimize the Jewish state. Arab propaganda has successfully converted this political legal topic into a humanitarian issue. The plight of the refugees has been callously exploited by the Arab leadership to put political pressure on Israel. Arab politicians are smarter than meets the eye, while for some odd reason, the political leadership in Israel has blinded itself during and after the 1991 Madrid Conference, ignoring this critical legal issue.

It must be emphasized that the refugee problem is not an issue between Israel and the "Palestinian" Arabs but between Israel and the Arab states that attacked her in 1948. It is surprising that this important fact is not being highlighted and is therefore little known to the American or the Israeli public.

though my own solution still is, live together in peace and only attack the MPAA

Palestine is the occupying power? I think you got this wrong mate, Palestinians do not even have controlling power over their own border with Israel. Bedouins are nomadic tribe, they dont have a country of their own, so should we give them a country too?

I agree with l.v.elessar, the US should withdraw their support to Israel, the UN should abolish the so-called Veto power in substantive matters that is given to its 5 permanent members and replaced by a democratic voting system.



if that's the ONLY solution to this problem, then yeah, i agree with you. The've done it in the past, so why don't start today?

Well from my point of view it's maybe not so that palestine is the occupying power, but neither is Israel the occupying power. See my story above


I'm certainly not against if they want

if it were possible (it isn't) but suppose, just suppose the anti Israel folks were to all of a sudden lose all their weapons, what do you think would happen? there would be peace. If Israel were to suddenly find themselves with no weapons, well lets just say total wipeout.

this is my opinion only, and I do not in anyway take sides in this matter.

If Iran ever gets the bomb, look the f**k out

Well mate if all the anti Israeli folks loose their weapons I can say for sure that Israel and America will have far greater Oil reserves (i.e Middle East will be Synonymous with Israel/America),and the large scale genocide that would follow (in the name of "anti-terrorism" ) would be quite a spectacle.




considering they are facing problems even while dreaming about a bomb,
I guess there would be a Big dent on Earth,in the place of Iran,the minute they come even close to realising their nasty dream,no prizes for who will make the dent!!


On the Issue of Israel,
I personally think that Israel was forced on palestinians,more of a goof up made by the allied forces when they didnt know where to place the huge amount of jewish refugees displaced by the Axis.
(British didnt want them nor did america,so what better way to get rid of them then giving them the promised land!!)

It seems the origin of this state are very Dubious,but we cant let the present generation of both Israel as well as Palestine suffer due to glaring mistakes made in the past,
As we know that in the present situation Israel has enormous powers while Palestine has bricks and suicide bombers,
so a cut down on Israel's power and a strict UN peace keeping Force for Palestine can help to stabalize the situation.
if that doesnt work out then both Israelis as well as Palestinians shoul be displaced to the different regions of the world (with Proper Aid) and the disputed region should be declared a No-Mans land free for all to Visit but none can stay.

I guess the Israeli's wont let this happen but the Palestinians would be more than happy to get some peace after all.

And for the record I am on the side of the innocent sufferers from both isreal as well as palestine.

Well, peace in as far as the occupier of the land would have complete control over the land they are occupying.

The palestinians having weapons lets them fight occupiers.



Because they would no longer be able to occupy someone elses land without weapons.



They have the same right to have nukes as anyone else :)

to fight the occupiers, give me a break if the anti-Israel folks would stop shooting rockets into neighborhoods and mass suicide murder and actually work toward peace with Israel then they would most of what they want..








they wouldn't be occupying someone if 6 nations wouldn't of attacked a nation of Israel in 1948. In which a newly formed nation of Israel kicked the ass of 6 other nations armies.


So, please tell me how is Israel the bad guy in this?

Do you really think that if the palestinians stopped attacking Israel then Israel would disolve their state and give the land back?

I doubt it.



Country comes in, takes the land for it's own, treats the people who were there before them horribly, then call people fighting for their land terrorists.

How would you like it if some religon came into your country and claimed it as their promised land and treated you horribly with billions of dollars worth of weapons from America, then called you a terrorist for fighting back?

Thats the problem Israel shouldn't have to dissolve its self and give everything back as it wasn't the palestinians to begin with. Yes some of the land should be used to make a nation of Palestine but that won't happen until they simply allow Israel the right to exist.








Give the land back what? The jews were there first if you want to get into that. Treats them horribly? hows that when a large # of palestinians live happily in Israel and they are treated like normal citizens. and to let you know Lebanon expelled most the palestinians as well their own arab people how is that the nation of Israels fault?







I don't really care about Religion as most of them are just glorified cults anyway. Israel wasn't only supplied by the US nor was it created by the US, but infact the entire NATO and on your question I wouldn't elect some out of control group like humas to lead my people after two decades of trying to make peace.

should i support israel in this discussion on this site because more so called opinions are favouring the palistinian point of view because that would be fairer right , some on here make it appear if israel have the better weapons somehow they should give some to their enemies so that it would be a fairer fight.

Well as for a fair fight you will find that the it wasnt a fair fight when quite afew countries attacked israel in 1948 without america's help and still lost, did you clain fair fight then(i know alot of r 10 and could not have been alive then) course you didnt because then and in 67 when israel won the war in six day it wasnt a fair fight, it wasnt a matter of weapons it was the one above protecting his people, so get over it because it aint going to change.
If you care to read abit of history you will find that the jews were forced out their country what is called israel now because of evil roman and greek regimes so you can call it returning home.

If i were to come and kick you out of your home and your grandson evenually manages to kick my grandson out would that be fair!!!

Just because there was jews there many many many many centuries ago does not give their descendents (if they even are) the right to take the land from the people who were there.



I know nothing about Lebanon expelling palestinians, and I obviously didn't say anything about it, nor did I say it was Israel's fault.



Someones long since deceased possibly ancestors living in a place does not give them the right to take the land.



The palestinians in the Gaza Strip and West Bank are treated horribly. Israelcontrols the occupied territorys, demolishes schools, houses, farms and other buildings. They use palestinians as human shields, and kill (even children), all in the name of Israeli security.



I agree, but that wasn't the point.

The question still stands :)



Israel does have better weapons. Modern guns, modern tanks, modern fighters/bombers, modern submarines (with nukes), etc.

The palestinians have what... Old soviet guns, old soviet rockets from WWII, rocks to throw at the IDF, and suicide bombers.



Right, but the jews that were expelled from palestine wern't the grandfathers of the jews that made Israel. It goes back much farther.

And it wasn't the palestinians that kicked them out. Why should they suffer?

Just because there were some palestinians some decades ago does not give them the right to take the land from the people who live there now


Palestinians [NO not all!!! but certainly the terroristic groups like Islamic Jihad, Fatah and Hamas] use children as human shields, ok if they "protect" themselves with innocent children[children are ALWAYS innocent] then it's their own responsibility if they die. Also they kill innocent people in small villages with their old fashioned qassam rockets which miss their target always. All their killing in the name of the holy Allah[who??]

Bingo!!



Innocent Men, Woman, and CHILDREN!!


Its not like the bus load or market full of people are the Israel Military that the Suicide Mass-Murders (notice I don't say Bombers and thats because all they are is Murders) Kill all the time.

I knew someone would say that.

The palestinians who live there now, it's their parents, or grandparents who had their land stolen from them. Just like szl001 said: "If i were to come and kick you out of your home and your grandson evenually manages to kick my grandson out would that be fair!!!".

The palestinians, until recently, have lived in that land for thousands of years. Jews lived there a thousand years and many enturies ago.



The IDF kills many many more people then Palestinian sucide bombers and people who shoot WWII era soviet rockets into Israel.

There have always been Jews in Israel, I don't know why people keep on saying that they lived there "thousands of years ago". To validate my statement, one could look up the countless recent Zionist movements throughout 1800's out of persecution in both Europe and the Islamic world. This is interesting too-

"The rise of Nazism in 1933 led to a fifth wave of Aliyah. The subsequent Holocaust in Europe led to additional immigration from other parts of Europe. The Jewish population in the region increased from 83,790 (11%) in 1922 to 608,230 (33%) in 1945.[20] In 1939, the British introduced a White Paper of 1939, which limited Jewish immigration over the course of the war to 75,000 and restricted purchase of land by Jews, perhaps in response to the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. The White Paper was seen as a betrayal by the Jewish community and Zionists, who perceived it as being in conflict with the Balfour Declaration. The Arabs were not entirely satisfied either, as they wanted Jewish immigration halted completely. However, the White Paper guided British policy until the end of the term of their Mandate. As a result, many Jews fleeing to Palestine to avoid Nazi persecution and the Holocaust were intercepted and returned to Europe. Two specific examples of this policy involved the ships Struma and Exodus (carrying Holocaust survivors in 1947).[21] Attempts by Jews to circumvent the blockade and flee Europe became known as Aliyah Bet."

Not to stray too far from the subject, but how come people are usually quick to point out Israel's errors but lets Arab countries' mistakes off the hook? An example would be people criticizing Israel for military attacks which (most of the time) are targeted on opposing military forces, camps, etc., as opposed to the attacks usually made by Arab countries which (most of the time) involve civilians. Case in point- Israel vs. Hezbollah, Palestine, etc.. It seems that Israel is fighting with one hand behind their back because of morality and fear of criticism yet the majority are quick to criticize their (Israelli's) actions however justified they are. Another example of how passive the majority are of issues concerning Islamic countries' actions would be the Pope making a single comment of Islam or a regular guy drawing a caricature of their messiah would cause riots and harm civilians and yet the majority would turn the other cheek or ear or however you put it and their actions (riots, etc.) are quickly forgotten. But when Islams comment on Christians or Jews, The latter (Christians and Jews) don't seem to take any action probably because majority of the world would be quick to judge them. You seldom get to see Christians and/or Jews rioting or causing destruction or breaking peace because of an Islamic figure's comments towards them let alone a caricature of their (Christians or Jews) messiah(s). I think the whole thing or situation is ridiculously unfair.

I agree with you 100+%

all the land was bought off palestinian land owners who diddnt care about the people that lived on their land.

Cheers MuddSlinger.

Islam forbids killing women and children and old citizens in war. And please, don't drag the name of Allah in this issue. So much wrong informations have been said about Islam. And don't let this community be one of those places too. Those Islamic terrorist are fighting for their own people, but the actions they took are wrong. I agree that killing all those innocent people doesn't reflect the true teachings of Islam. The Palestinians are desperate, and desperate people will take desperate actions just to counter the injustice that has been done to them. The Jews, Christians and Islams were once living together in prosper under the rule of the Prophet Muhammad in the city of Medina. If the Jews truly want some part of the Palestinians' land, I'd say just give them the land and hope that the war will stop and people will start again to live in peace.

I'm a little surprised about the responses to Israel.

First of all, Israel was NOT created by a bunch of Zionists. The land was GIVEN to them by the UN and the most powerful europowers (read: WW2 victors). After WW2 there was a large number of jewish refugees seeking asylum in any country that would take them -- most wouldn't. It's not hard to understand the huge number of people that wanted out of Germany and the surrounding area even though Hitler's regime had ended. There was no reason to believe that safety had now returned because Hitler was no longer in charge.
And even though the jews had endured a massive genocide at the hands of Hitler's regime anti-semitism at that time was common place in many countries outside Germany as well. Countries like Canada, who you might think would have taken such refugees, outright refused to allow them entry (unlike a number of german ex-soliders who you think would have been circumspect but were still given citizenship. Canada still generates headlines of those found to have nazi ties with naturalized canadian citizenship 50 years after the fact.)

The US gives Israel a lot of support? Why shouldn't they? They were one of the few countries that took jewish refugees in; and in the hundreds of thousands I might add. They also supported the creation of Israel and, unlike their euro-compatriots, felt responsable.

But the bottom line is that Israel was basically created because the jews had no other place to go and no country wanted to take responsability for them. So since all the europeans didn't want the jews "in my backyard" they dumped them in the middle east without prior consultation or care. Zionists might have tried to give it an altogether new meaning but you're giving them too much credit if you think they've done it all by themselves.

Do the palestinians and surrounding nations have a right to gripe? Absolutely! But let's not confuse the issues. Anti-semitism was just as popular then as it is now in the middle east. And Palestine as a nation wasn't as prosperous they'd have you believe even before the Israelies came in and took it over. A lot of the terrorrism aimed at Israel is racist hatred pure and simple.

Leading up to the 6 day war (1957?) all the surrounding nations had every intention of wiping Israel off the map. However, the single handed complete and total defeat of all of Israel's neighbouring countries in 6 days changed the middle east forever and those changes last until today.

Of course, today rather than facing a disorganized and corrupt military (as in the 6 day war) you have soliders (terrorists) quite willing to die for their cause and that's created problems for Israel that will persist. But focusing on the terrorism ignores the many peaceful relationships Israel has managed to form with many ex-enemies (Egypt and Jordan to name a few) who obviously have come to accept Israel as a nation within the middle east.

Definitely US support has helped Israel develop as a nation but regardless of what palestinian refugees, terrorrists or anti-semites want -- Israel is here to stay.

You do not want to get me started on such a responses about Israel being the rightful owners of the land. Read History my friend. Here is a little visual teaching for you. Israel was given land in 1945 and you can see what they took over from there with the help of the US. Now is this fair? Just like rocks against tanks, jets missiles, helicopters, etc etc. How would you like it if I came to your house, raped your wife, killed your children and I took over half your house. Then we go to court and the judge says you still have half your house, what are you complaining about? If you want to get into a religious aspect of this, you need to look at books that are changed by man to suit people's needs. The Qur'an is the only book protected by God and He tells us that in the Qur'an. It will be protected no matter what anyone tries to do. This is where you will find the real history. This was never the land of the Jews, it is only in religious books changed by man.

What date is the koran written?

Snoopy the maps are awesome thank you.

Why would Palestinians have a problem with this?

We will see war here for the rest of our lifetime.

I am mad because my taxes are buying the bullets.

Rйk, the Qur'an is full of knowledges far beyond our imagination. The Qur'an has already mentioned about the Sun, the Moon and the other planets in our solar system long before the scientists found out about that. The Qur'an even tells us about how the first man was made from dust!. It doesn't matter when was the Qur'an written because the Qur'an has existed since the world began. The Qur'an is full of histories, stories streched from Adam's time to the end of the world. I am not going further into these debates on religion because this is not the place and I have no time for ignorants. Do your research or even read something reliable before laughing at other people's religion. I respect all of the religion in the world and I have lots of friend from around the world that come from different religions and backgrounds, but I never look down or disrespect their beliefs. Please, be more civilised next time. We are afterall a family here.

Jazak Allah Khair Well put Masha'Allah

I see it a lil' bit different, it's just so that when people are calling the jews "terrorists" and so on, and saying about that we raped all people who lived there before in the holy land, then you cannot think of me that i have to respect people who don't respect me....

that's my two cents for this, and after all peace is still the best for Israel (for both Israeli's and the Arabs)