Richard Dawkins, a British evolutionary scientist, wrote that the science of evolution disproves the existence of a god and the abolishment of religion will effectively do away with violence. Is this a statement with merit, or would the lack of a faith based system exponentially cause worsening problems within our closed cultures?

well i dont think it would make all violence stop but it might be an improvement. i would like to see this happen one day

Getting rid of religion would be great, as long as it isn't by force.

Wouldn't be the first contradiction in history.

As I have said in previous posts, people have used religion as a shield to hide behind, and to cover up the fact that they like to cause sorrow, death and destruction for millenia.

An easy scapegoat to blame something or someone else when you don't want to face up to the realisation that you are evil incarnate...

I believe that science will one day prove that there is a "creator" or intelligent design if you will. But thats just what I believe but in the mean time, I am not gonna blow you up if you don't believe the same. Have a nice day

I remember reading from my AP History book a few years ago, that more lives have been lost over religion.

I think if what he says is true "the science of evolution disproves the existence of a god" then it will cause the safety net that everyone has used for many many years will bring a lot more confusion in life.

Nothing brings more confusion than a power outage. Lets hope they don't coincide.

See this is something that I have always thought about and fought with. I come from a very religious family and my parents and grandparents "know" for a fact that God does exist. they will die believing something that they have never seen or have proof of. I have always thought outside the box though and tried to understand it more. But I have come to the conclusion that i believe science AND religion. Its just very difficult to ignore so many things that science cant prove.

I believe that too many people use religion to use for their own cause's. If there is in fact a true God, why would he want us to go out and kill everybody, or Budda, or whoever. Don't use religion to hurt people. Also I think that if there was not a God, that this world would not be worth living. If the worlds population found out one day that God or any of the Gods never existed the world would turn in the upside down, for a couple of reasons. Some people would feel that they didn't have anything more to live for so they a. go crazy and start killing people or b. they respect life more. c. a lot of wars would stop thats for sure, lots of a people would stop dieing in the name of ala. But thats just me and I'm not the more intelligent person so whatever...

Well considering christians have evolved and don't have any law in their holy book about going out and conquering or jihading all over the globe, how about we just settle this by doing away with islam and scientology.

The Americas were ravaged in the name of a christian god, and if you think catholicism has evolved from that, then take a look at the dirty tricks being used in Africa to "win a few souls" -- yes, I know the Saudi-sponsored islamic cruelties get centerstage, but islam is not the only religion doing damage over there.

Yes, your religion just happens to be the best, never harmed anyone, everyone else is a savage barbaric blasphemous infidel, eh? :P

You all worship the same god, just you have minor differences in how you do it...

(I assume you are a christian because not many non christians would support christianity as much as you seem to)

I'd bet that christians cause more deaths then muslims :P

You made me think of a trick a christian group did to some local heathens. This man thought he was controled by evil spirits. The missionary gave him some water heavly treated with red food coloring. They told him it would clean the spirits out of his body. When the man went pee it was red.....

Yes I aggree over the many thousands of years christianity has evolved and I am not questioning the fact that it was involved in many horrible things. Matter in fact when I speak of todays christians and jews versus the islams wondering about its with in the last 100 years. Today we don't have christians doing much else other than going arround giving food and clothes to the poor. Many risked their life and some were killed going to other countries that were islamacountries.

Yes I have not forgotten the christian on christian violence in the UK.. Still today christians have evolved and some have even welcomed gays in to the church despite the bible saying its wrong, it still says do not judge people and hate the sin not the person... I wonder what the saying would be in islam? Does it have anything equal to don't hate people, hate sin or tolerance for people who do not pray the same way?


Its very crucial that both the left and right work together to stop the islamic invasion into civil countries. Yes they come to other countries for a better life but at what cost to the people who were their first? It sorta reminds me of the settlers and the indians only this time the weapon of the settlers is using their own laws of free speech to make such comments as kill the queen or threats of violence and islamajihadism.


They munipulate the far left multicultural fanatics who want open borders and increased imagration but ignore human rights. These people comming to civl countries are comming from countries where women are 2nd class people, gays are killed and stealing will get your hand cut off. Its not too far fetched that while they come to a civil country for work, they also carry the beliefs of their former countries with them and hope to change their new country by seeking a medium.


Basicly they want a country that provides them with stability, work and freedom to trash the goverment, something they did not have before but what they don't understand is those core islamavaules are what caused their country to be the way it is. Can't have your cake and eat it too sometimes.

Um... Iraq? Afghanistan? Any country America has messed up?

Of course christianity is going to look good and islam is going to look bad if you compare the good things about christianity (ignoring the bad) with the bad things about islam (ignoring the good).



Still today christians get signs that say "GOD HATES FAGS" and "THANK GOD FOR AIDS" and wave them around...



That's the "we are good, they are bad" thinking that can cause massive problems... It's the "America fighting evil" thought that caused a lot of bad in the cold war and after the cold war.

Some believe that science and religion don't have to be mutually exclusive. I think the theists that say that are just reluctant to shed their security blankets...

I don't know of religion could ever be eliminated, but if it did, surely violence would end on a large scale. However, I can't fathom it ending totally.

Are you refering to the far left or far right family of like 12? compared to the 10% of the billions of muslims who have become terrorslams? Lets not foget they hate bush for the war but unlike the far left they also direct their hate to men who like men. Afghanistan we messed it up or removed a horrible form of leadership that did very wrong things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfw7v149oMY...ted&search=
ADL_242 EDIT :: video of [Afghani] burqa'd woman getting beaten in public.

Watch that a few times. Thats the crap that our christian founded US of A fought against in Afghanistan not to mention aqueda who bombed us. Lets also not forget we were united both the left and right in that war plus had the support of the internation community. Iraq is another story.

-----

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuJGWSB_Y3Y...ted&search=
ADL_242 EDIT :: CNN report of Afghani woman who burnt herself in a suicide-attempt to escape abuse in a forced marriage. Contains some graphic images of burned patients.

There ye be, enjoy CNN covered the all too common abuse of women. I think any REAL religion or science would denounce this. I think this is one of the few reasons we went there. I sure as hell know it was not oil.

ADL_242 EDIT:: merged doublepost -- please add a description when posting videolinks in case a video is removed.

I do think that if it was conclusively proven, beyond any doubt, that there is NO god. Far from the world degenerating into a moral quagmire, with people randomly slaughtering each other, as some theists would tend to suggest. People reallising that this is the ONLY LIFE you are ever going to have would perhaps value it more. Rather than expecting pie in the sky when you die.

I could compare twenty percent of the wakazoos who migrated from jellylyuosnowlund because of the second franco-german auchchilliabrac of 1465.

See, I can make up meaningless words and use them in a sentence too :P



America has a horirble form of leadership that does very wrong things. Maybe Russia should invade them...



Shoundn't any real religion denounce the foreign invasion and occupation of iraq too?



America very rarely does anything for the good of everyone. It is 99% of the time about profit, power, influence, patriotism, etc.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Yea, but the word "wakazoo" just sounds cool and it popped into my head at the time. I had to use it somehow :P

Okay first off I am from America yet do not consider myself american because of these fools
America is a very selfish and terrorist country (Dont believe me about the terrorist part Ill explain ina mo)
Its run by christians yes but atleast they dont go in the name of the pope because its run by the Protestant denominations
People are afraid to allow catholics into government thinking the pope would rule
When it comes on the subject of "God" originally back when paganism started it was due to some unexplained deaths and people coming conscious again after one death
Thus comes my idea that "God" is a way for people to not fear their own demise as much as they would without a "God" knowing that they would just most likely rot in a hole underground
Come on think about that..which would everyone really prefer if you are still fearing death
"Eternal bliss with a creator of sorts after we leave our bodies so our souls can live forever in peace" OR
"Death is the final stop after this we are nothing more than fertilizer to the dirt we are going to rot in because there is nothing else"
I just love pointing this out I always did in school to piss of my religion teachers (I went to catholic schools and from there I renounced that religion)
In the Bible oh yeah I read it so many times out of BOREDOM from the teachers bull xD
In the Bible Satan is shown as bad and evil and a force of temptation but see God has killed according to the Bible millions of people while in the name of Satan I think there was a maximum of 5.
Who looks better to you right now?
The Catholics themselves say they are "Narrow Minded" as the Church thus bringing around IGNORANCE yay :D all religions are ignorant
I choose to follow the agnostic faith thus keeping some sort of "balance"
And for those who think evolution is changing to survive its not that its just people are born with deformities if that helps them live better it wont be a deformity and they will be the ones that thrive and grow in numbers because they are able to cope with the environment better (Not always deformities but my point should be somewhat clear)

America = Terrorism!
We are terrorist as well as we were attacked by terrorists
Our country is lead in fear, fear is used by everything to gain support
Politics they bad mouth terrorism saying its stronger than ever now but no its not they just hate us lol (Most countries actually I think all because British despise us even though they are the only true ally)
Our Media is run with terror which is why we have such high death tolls
Japan has maybe 11 murders a year maximum
Some places in Canada last time they heard of a murder in their town some are talking about things their PARENTS/GRANDPARENTS told them
Check out some Micheal Moore documentaries like Bowling For Columbine its about that school shooting in Colorado
He shows many statistics that makes you want to NEVER be here haha
We have THOUSANDS of murders each year atleast a few a day
Media gets attention outta fear people in the US are driven by it
Its used so people get their own ways its things like this is why every american resorts to guns as a way to solve things
Its not pretty being shot I have been once before but wasnt from the fear I am talking about
But the way things go around in america wouldnt you think from this Americans are run by a terrorist society?

I believe religion shouldn't tell you how to live thy life, or punish you for what you choose. Religion to me is a excuse to rule over other people in a divine right.


Whoever said America is a bunch of Terrorists isn't true. You yourself said that people were ruled by fear. So how does that make unknowing people Terrorist?




I wonder what radical in the U.S. employs terror as a political weapon... Anyone feel free to answer this question

It doesn't make the people terrorist. It makes the government a terrorist government. All the massive ammount of death and terror it causes around the world, plus the fact that it uses the whole "we are good, they are bad, they want to kill us because we are good" thing to scare (terror, fear) people into not caring, and even encouraging, government control over peoples lives.

Terrorist = Someone who spreads/uses terror

i have been an atheist for a while now, and let me first say that if you read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and you still believe whole-heartedly that god exists, something is wrong with you.

I do believe that if we were somehow able to rid the world of religion, especially organized religion then the world would have a decreased amount of violence. The only religions that i would exclude from that are; Buddhism and Jainism. Buddhism is a religion which doesn't necessarily believe in a specific deity, but is basically a religion that is a non-theist religion, meaning they do not particularly believe in a god, but rather seek to attain perfect enlightenment like that of the Buddha, which includes living a life of non-violence towards all the earths creatures. Jainism is a religion which is very much non-violent/pacifist.

But religions such as Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are generally religions that seem to be violent. Look at the way so called strict Christians in government view the world. They view the world as their own and seek to control the world through invasion and through the barrel of a gun. While Jesus talked a large amount about love and tolerance, such as "if a man slaps your cheek, offer him the other" and "if a man steals your coat, offer your shirt" most Christians do not live a life of tolerance. While Christians may not kill in the name of god, they certainly do not practice what they preach. Although Christians in some circumstances have been known the kill in the name of god in such cases as bombing abortion clinics, which in my eyes also makes them terrorists. Jews currently have Palestine in a stranglehold with U.S. support. As for Islam there murderous ways are pretty obvious.

Earlier someone said that they believe that Christians have probably killed more people than Muslims, and I would have to agree. While Christians may not kill people through bullets and bombs, although you could argue that they do with all the American wars that have taken place in the last 70 years, Christians do kill through backwards ideology. For instance various studies have shown that Abstinence Only Sex Education does not work, in that it does not prevent more teenagers from having sex, but on average most teenagers will just delay sex for about a year, but at the same time if they are not taking part in coital sex (vaginal/penile sex) then they are partaking in oral and anal sex, and with abstinence only sex education there are more contractions of STI's (sexually transmitted infections). Also under abstinence only sex-ed more couples are likely to go without condoms or any form of birth control, with that being said it is more likely that these couples will of course become pregnant, resulting in more abortions, which is something the church considers murder (i myself am pro-choice). But Christians do not necessarily care for the result but rather their own actions. Christians belief that if they teach kids that they should not have sex until marriage, then they are doing their moral duty, it is up to the teenager to do what is right, and if they fail then that is there own fault, not the fault of the Christian teacher.

Another example i have is that many Christians disapprove of the united states sending condoms to African nations that have horrible AIDS crises. They believe that by us sending condoms it directly promotes sexual promiscuity. But not sending condoms to AIDS torn Africa could directly help cause more people to contract the AIDS/HIV virus which could/will result in their death. Also some Christians believe that Americans should not send African nations AIDS medicine because this also will promote sexual promiscuity. Many Christians believe that we should be teaching these people abstinence only sex education, which would directly involve teaching them Christian moral values. I have also seen a study that has shown that when the United States has conservative republican presidents that Abortion rates are higher, but are less when we have a Democract, with liberal values as in that case people are more likely to be educated on birth control, and better alternatives.


I believe that the 3 major religions, christianity, islam, and judiaism all teach intolerance and a message of hatred, and it would serve the world better to do away with them, but not through the barrel of a gun.

I also believe that if we were to find out that there is no god, it would not create hysteria within the world. I have come to accept the fact that when i die, i die, thats it.

In coming to this realization, i know that i have one life to live, and that i should live it to my fullest, i think that god is the biggest anchor in anyones life, and could hold people back more than ever. I think it is odd to think that you can go out during the day, commit murder, rob someone blind, and go home at night and kneel beside your bed and ask for forgiveness and when death comes knocking at your door you will be greated with a world of silver/gold/diamonds while a person like me who believes strongly in peace, human rights, and love will burn in hell because i believe in the concrete rather than the abstract such as god.


i'd also like to say that while i am not fond of religion whatsoever, i do not particularly think that all religious people are bad people but rather they are a misled people.


I also recommend these reads:

The God Delusion - Richard Dawkins
Letter To A Christian Nation - Sam Harris
The End Of Faith - Sam Harris
With God On Their Side: George W. Bush and The Christian Right - Esther Kaplan
Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism - Michelle Goldberg

Ok, there is one problem that I see with everyone talking about religion these days. Everyone says that Christianity is a religion of hate and millions of people have died because of Christianity. They also say that the United States is a Christian nation and the war in Iraq is started and sustained by Christians. Here's the big problem with these claims: those people are not Christians. George Bush, Dick Cheney, nor anyone working for the Bush administration are Christians. Neither were the crusaders. Neither were any "Christians" who were responsible for a war. The reason I can say this without a doubt is because they are not living the life of a Christian. I believe radfred7 is very correct in saying that the "Christians" of today do not practice what they preach (at least the ones of Europe and America). But as a Christian myself, I can tell you all a bit about it. Anyone who has read the new testament knows the commands of Christ: Love your neighbor as thyself, do unto others, blessed are the peaceful, the meek, etc. Anyone who is REALLY a Christian would never go to war for any reason. Thou Shalt Not Kill. The Bible clearly states what Christians are supposed to do and if someone CLAIMS to be a Christian, but goes to war and kills people you can obviously tell that they are just using the "Christian" label in order to get votes or to justify their reasons with the whole "God is on our side" crap. Real Christians don't believe God is on any country's "side". I know people who have dedicated their lives to helping people in Guatemala and Peru. They spend all their money building houses, educating, caring for, and feeding the destitute natives who live there. And by giving them a message called the gospel those people can actually have some hope. That is what real Christians are supposed to be doing. Everything that people blame Christians for, all the violence and deciet, can really be attributed to the sick people who call themselves Christians. Jesus called them Hypocrites and never would endorse what they do.Oh and by the way if you really want to know what Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, and the "elite" who claim to be Christians really are... research the Bohemian Grove, Skull and Bones, and the Illuminati a bit.

I believe that religion could be a reason for violence, but even if it were the only reason, people would just find a new reason if it were to go away

Christianity is a manufactured religion used as a tool of control. One of it's fundamental premises, is that human beings are basically "evil", & only by subscribing to Christianity can they, or their souls be redeemed. Ergo all non-Christians are, as the Americans so eloquantly put it "Bad Guys".

To truly understand the controlling power of Christian religion you have to look at it from the perspective of the time the Bible was first translated into English. It put the fear of eternal damnation into anyone who disagreed with the teachings of the church. "Blessed are the meek. For they shall inherit the Earth". Good one for keeping the workers in line, or as Joe Hill put it "Work all day & live on hay. You'll get pie in the sky, when you die"! Satan, supposedly god's favourite angel, was cast into the pit of eternal damnation, merely for wanting equality? There goes the first communist! "Thou shalt not have any god but God"? Very convenient. (They had no Monopolies & Mergers Laws). "Turn the other cheek" "Render unto Ceaser" Yeah & mind your bloody manners when you do. "Thou shalt not (There are a lot of "Thou shalt nots") suffer a witch". Any one who wishes to escape the puritanical constraints of Christianity can therefore be duly punished. As could herbalists, people who how to cure sickness, anyone who spoke out against the injustices of the church or practiced the wisdom of the "Old Ways" (They drew horns on Comrade Satan & called them "Evil Devil Worshipers") Those who seek to control have always feared the educated intellectuals, those cleverer or wiser than themselves. "Thou shalt not kill". We might as well ignore this one. They certainly do!

Why do we have the unquestioned assumption that Christianity is a "good" philosophy, & it's only it's malpractice which is "bad"???

Why don't you tell me of a nation that does help everyone? The world is 99% of the time thinking about profit, power, influence, money, etc. and to denounce only the USA is almost hypercritical.

None do. America does it more though.



Only if you make the false assumption that I support any other nation.

It isn't just me that seems to have forgotten those!



I don't think you have understood what I'm trying to say? I was talking about the Dark Age that brought Christianity to the shores of Europe!
The original Devil in the bible, was a fallen angel (With No Horns). When the Christians first came to Europe & found that they worshiped Cernunnos, a Horned Fertility God. The Christians decided to draw horns on the devil in the bible, so that they could accuse the pagan Europeans of devil worship. They then punished them by Burning At The Stake, throwing them, bound, into running water. It was believed water would not accept a witch, so if they floated, they were found guilty pulled out & burned. If they sank, they were innocent.

We have the unquestioned assumption that Christianity is a "good" philosophy & it's only the malpractice of it which is "bad"
Christianity starts with the assumption that human beings are inherently "bad" & that only it (Christianity) can save them. It is a religion which demands unquestioning obedience to it's doctrine. Ie If you don't believe, it is because you are a "bad" person & you will be punished in some purgatory for eternity. Somehow you are born "sinful". It is a philosophy which seeks to control the ego, through guilt of the horned beast of inner desires. Even thought can
be "bad"? It draws analogies between a shepherd & his flock, talks of "holy lambs of god" as if seeking men to behave as sheep.

It is a philosophy that has brought & is bringing untold misery to millions of people throughout the world. whether in anyones opinion the perpetrators of these miseries are "True Christians" or not is a moot point. It is the Christian philosophy that has allowed this to happen! Is The Pope a "True Christian"? It is the pope who through "Holy Doctrine" refuses to sanction the use of condoms despite the AIDS & HIV epidemic in Africa, & the burgeoning teenage pregnancy rate in the rest of the world.

ok Crowhawk... here's the large problem with all of your arguments: you are talking about Catholics. Nowhere in the Bible is there anything against use of condoms. And no, the Pope is not a "true Christian". He is a catholic. They worship Mary, believe that they are really eating Christ's body and flesh when they do communion, and lots of other weird things that are nowhere to be found in the Bible. To say that it's a moot point that the people who are doing all these things are not "true Christians" is totally taking the responsibility off the people for their actions and blaming the philosophy for everything wrong that happens. The Christian "philosophy" is to love everyone and to help those in need... so you can't even blame that philosophy for the deaths of all those pagans and supposed witches. It is the evilness of the perpetrators, not the evilness of the Christian philosophy. That's just a total cop out that everyone uses who hates religion. Really, can you show any evidence that anyone who lives how the New Testament Christian is supposed to live, which is to become as close to Jesus as humanly possible, has committed any of the atrocities that history has seen. It's obviously not the Bible, or even religion, that is making people do the things they do. I agree with you that people do twist what the Bible says to fit their own agenda, but that's the problem with the person, not the Christian philosophy. If that person didn't use a distorted view of Christianity, they'd find another way to do what they wanted. I'd really like some examples of how bible believing Christians, who do only as Jesus commanded, have been responsible for the "deaths of millions of innocent people".

Whether you support any other nation or not doesn't change that statement, as every other nation is just as culpable as the US in some way or another.

The Bible says "Thou Shalt not suffer a witch to live"!

Basically What you have in the Christian bible Is the retelling of a far older myth. It was probably put together by a Jewish pagan mystery sect, perhaps the Essenes. It Has like most religions been used as a tool of control. If you were borne in a different place, you'd just as fervently be trying to tell me some other religion was a "good" philosophy. Nothing that takes away a persons responsibility for their own destiny can be described as good. Can it? Can something that promises eternal damnation for being, thinking & behaving as a human being be a "good" philosophy? They have even insinuated into schools so as to put the far of god into children. In my mind one of the most insidious forms of child abuse. It was the Jesuits who said "Give me the child until he is ten & I'll give you the man".

To say the Pope "isn't Christian, he's Catholic" is crass sectarianism. They are the ones responsible for doctrine. The Protestant church came about much later. When the pope challenged the authority of Henry VIII in refusing him leave to divorce.

So it sounds as if the only "true Christian" is the guy who lives next door to Homer Simpson?

What have vegans got to do with it?

Lol, if theres a god, I dont like him.

Reasons;

War
Hate
Pain
Popmusic
Hiphop
Rap
Soul


And btw, if theres a god, why did he create so much other religons? And, there are about 2000religions (also the religions of tribes and stuff.), If I pick the wrong one, I go to hell. So theres a chance of 2000 against 1 that I go to heaven. Wow. that sux. and, there are probably more religions then 2000.


Science? I dont believe in science, just plain truth.

Science PwNz0rS Religion to be on topic

Perhaps if you told me the chapter and verse, I could check it out.

Exodus 32:verses to follow

26Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

27And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

28And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

29For Moses had said, Consecrate yourselves today to the LORD, even every man upon his son, and upon his brother; that he may bestow upon you a blessing this day.

30And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

31And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.

32Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

33And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

34Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.

35And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

In the bible you can find what ever you search for...god's orders for peace and love or for vengeance and death. Same can be said for Islam. If one person quotes peaceful scriptures while another quotes violent ones both from the same bible are they not both Christians?

Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

To judge some one's "Christianity" is not Christian is it?

Just another example of how I can counter any claim made by the very bible Christians believe to be infallible. If god is perfect why does he display and communicate human emotions of pride, anger, revenge, etc.?

I am a bible thumpers worst nightmare...as I was forced to study and cross reference scriptures from the time I could read until the time I left home...anyone up for scripture chase (finding the correct passage the quickest) I was our region's champion.

Sorry the religious pathology persists still today.

Still I am not against religion...I just find science much less ambiguous. I still know people today that use their religion for both "good" and "bad" in the end I judge the person for their actions not their belief...I can judge because I am not "Christian".

I don't care what reason you believe in peace...so long as you believe in peace.

Elessar

'Sup Elessar,
This article is directed at the apparent contradiction of "human murder vs God murder". I didn't mean to Bible thump, if that was the impression anyone here got, I'm sorry, I was just defending Christianity.

all very interesting however one fact remains that religions do not preach hate they merely are twisted to do so by selfserving individuals with an agenda.

this is helped by the monthism built in to most and the predisposition of people to want to hate that which they dont undertand.

No worries mate.

The point I was attempting to make is that someone can use the bible to make whatever point they want...eye for an eye...or thou shalt not kill...the article you linked was just an opinion...who is to say that it is any more or less valid than another's? Religion and faith are not beholden to facts so no concrete ideology can be claimed...it's all a matter of opinion. My god is better than your god...my view of god is more correct than your view...my dad can beat up your dad...it makes no difference.

Bible thump all you want I was just having a little fun with my response and did not intend for you to personalize my religious heckle, it anyways was not directed towards you but as a general statement of my scriptoral prowess. (gonna stop now as I am making up words)

I like this question yet i feel Dr. Dawkins is a very "2d" person, he takes it as he sees it. This is a personality trait. Many people though believe there is no god, have a trait in which still makes them worried there is a god. I myself am muslim. Though i dont follow it just because it was brought upon my family during war.

Ok i banter. As you stated a lack of faith might in turn create more problems just for the plain fact all the evangelistics and people that swear their religion is right will have nothing to lose and might just be psycho for another reason.

All in all people want something to believe in just for the plain fact, that it sucks to die knowing theres nothing on the other side.

teehee "scriptoral" prowess. Well in that case, I see what you mean.

This is a result of being brainwashed at a very early age. Childhood fears if reinforced strongly enough ie through fear, trauma etc, will bypass the conscious thought process & become almost instinctual. No matter how much common sense would indicate the irrationality of these fears, this phobic behaviour persists throughout adulthood. This, especially in those who come from a strongly religious background, frequently manifests itself in the "born again" syndrome.

To my mind this is the most insidious form of religious indoctrination & the raison d'etre behind religious involvement in schools. To sow the seeds of superstition & doubt in the minds of the child, before it has the capacity to make a reasoned & informed judgement, is a particularly pernicious form of child abuse. The Jesuits, the "educators" of the Catholic Church had a saying "Give me the child until he is ten & I will give you the man". They realised long before the behaviourists discovered operant & reflex conditioning that,"If they can catch them young enough, they can catch them for life."

Give me the child, and I will mould the man

This sums up nicely the dangers inherent even in the most passive religion. It is important to teach children to think for themselves from an early stage. If you bring a child up to believe in unproven phenomena then I believe it is only natural that that child will be at a severe disadvantage compared to a child bought up to think critically.

As for science V religion. No contest. Science is the only way forward as science is forward thinking. Religion is stagnant.

I think religion is needed.

Everyone should have faith in something and until people learn to have faith in themselves, they may as well use religion.

Thats not to say that religion is something to hide behind. to be pushed on to others nor is it an excuse for your actions. It should be something that helps you improve yourself and the understanding of yourself and the world around you.

I myself have nothing but faith. But that faith mostly reside within myself and my outlook on everything around me. I personally don't need religion to get my faith on.

Something I personally believe is that a religion that is based on a history book that has been re-written over and over by MAN are the ones that are furthest away from the true word of THEIR GOD.

Can science disprove the existence of God? I don't think so. For the simple fact that science would also have to disprove the existence of faith. And I don't think that it would stop violence because they would just find another excuse to use violence.

To quote Marx "Religion is the opiate of the people" Its nice to think that the poor people, after spending life struggling and suffering that they get eternal happiness. Religion is more of a tool of coercion than anything else. Because what does it teach? Fear of god, pacifism (for the most part although there are exceptions), acceptance of the inherent flaws of man, but mostly obedience and faith. Obedience, so that the meek who will inherit the earth, what for god to hand them it, rather than trying to take it.

And faith is also a dangerous thing. Because no religion can be proved to be superior, this results in religious wars fought along lines of my god is better than your god. Both sides believe that they are inherently right, despite going against the tenants of their religion, because most advocate for peace in one respect or another. I find it odd that any religious institution would support any type of war, and yet they do quite frequently.

Can science disprove god? No. Can religion prove god? No. Its a hollow argument. For as many reasons that religion can come with for why god exists, science can come up for why he doesn't exist. Anything that helps a person become kinder, gentler and more tolerant of other people is something that is worth keeping. But I have yet to see a religion that actually produces that, before I get flamed, I mean that religion took a jerk and made them a nice person. No change can come to a personality without the person's desire, so religion is just used in name, not in mechanism.

Science does not try to prove/disprove the existence of all the weird and wonderful concoctions of the human mind. God is just one of a myriad of supernatural entities (in other words entities existing outside the known constraints of the universe we live in) that have been born of Humanities quest to understand their home - Earth.

It is important to recognise that science does not actively go out of it's way to study god/s possible existence, unless we are thinking about ID/YEC proponents but in their case the term scientist is used with due care.

You state: "For the simple fact that science would also have to disprove the existence of faith". That statement is wrong. Faith is something that can be verified by simply observing (one of sciences disciplines) the faithful. To prove faith all I need to do is state that I have faith in whatever. Faith is a state of mind and just because you have faith in god/a god/gods (which, through you actions/statements can be shown to be true) does not mean that what you have faith in has any actual truth in it.

Science can and has proven that faith exists. It is very simple and easy. However the evidence that science has gathered regarding our planet/solar system/galaxy/universe does not point to an Intelligent designer. In fact the more evidence science gathers the less reason (based on fact) we have for believing in anything supernatural. Faith in a god and evidence for a god are separate issues. Whilst evidence for a god would of course have an impact on whether someone's faith may be true, evidence for faith in no way, shape or form constitutes evidence for the existence of god.





The more science explains the less room there is for god. God is used to explain the unexplainable (at least by those people who understand science - those that don't continue believing all sorts of nonsense for no other reason than they are ignorant) and the more science explains the smaller the domain of god becomes. You only have to look at the progression of religion to see that they are having to back peddle on a number of issues (creation [both of man and our world/universe] and evolution to name just 2) as evidence comes to light that shows religion to be not just slightly wrong but completely wrong. Odd considering they consider their information books (Qur'an/Bible/whatever) are divinely inspired - I would have thought the creator of the universe would have remembered what he did accurately.

Hey when you're as old as god you try remembering all the stuff you did.....and plus there's the ahlzimers thing to consider as well!!

Seriously though. Science can explain most things and at the rate it's progressing it will only be a matter of time before a lot of former "truths" are exposed as fake.
I can't help but wonder what impact this will have on the world......

To quote a spoof newscast on the UK TV show Red Dwarf "Scientists have today finally proven the bible to be a hoax as they have found a long lost page that reads "To my darling Candy.....this is for you"

Maybe the idea that somebody i knew once put to me could be true.....That the person known as Jesus was in fact the worlds first con man.....Only time will tell....

For one, this is a very controversial topic so if I offend any one, please understand it is not intentional. I am a firm believer in the fact that everyones beliefs are to be respected, even if you do not agree with them. I think that the faith in God people have are whats keeping this world from total chaos. No God, that means no consequences. People would not care about killing or raping, or any other terrible sin. I think my belief in God has probably saved a few peoples lives, not to sound threatening or anything like that. Even if you don't believe in God, its crazy to try and get other people not to. It will cause heart ache in many lives.

So then, if you didn't believe in god then you would go around raping women, killing children and stealing from old people? I think that says more about your lack of humanity than any positive aspect of religion. ;)