Since myself and some members here live in countries that don't institute the death penalty regardless of the heinous nature of some crimes, I'm against it anyways, what are some crimes that maybe should be considered? To my American friends, I would also enjoy your input on this subject, since some of you live in states that employ this system.

Its a tough subject. I for and against it... yeah that doesnt make much sense i guess.
Why im for it:
To punish child molesters and people that commit brutal and unspeakable crimes. like crimes involving mass murder, mutilation and torture.

Why im against it:
Mumia Abu-Jamal

i think there are better ways than the death penalty, that's an easy way out for some, life without parole, now that is tough

chemical castration? who wants that.

there are loads of alternatives, i don't think that capital punishment is necessary

Child Rapists. People dont seem to realize what getting raped really does to a child. In turn it ruins the child's life, and that kid could possibly turn around and do the same thing.

Send them to the bottom of the ocean me thinks.

Cheers

Short recap

Child Molesters, Mass Murderers...death

Chemical Castration...gets the ball rollin'

Any rapists in my opinion should be tied to a chair and their nuts beat with a hammer, then have the word "RAPIST" tattoo'd across their forehead and set free on the streets where 10,000 people are waiting to stone them to death.

That's a bit over the top. But still I strongly believe that there are crimes for with the infliction of death should be the only punishment. Some people just don't deserve to breath the same air as others.

R-I-T-A-L-I-N

haha..but seriously

Punishment should fit the crime.

The victim of a crime, and society as a whole, should be able to see justice being served.

Common sense should be used by the judges with regards to punishments. It should not be a case of this crime equals this punishment. For example a drunk man and drunk woman have sex where the woman wants to stop half way through (she comes to her senses maybe) but the man doesn't; that's still rape but it doesn't compare to a woman getting stalked in a park then dragged into a bush and brutally raped. The two cases should be treated seriously but the punishment needs to fit the crime.

With regards to the death sentence you have to be very careful as even today we still hear of errors of justice where innocent men/women have been sent to prison for crimes they didn't commit. As much as I'd love to wipe some psychopath of the face of the earth I don't think sanctioned murder is good for a progressive society.

Having said that, if our prison system actually did what it's there for (keeping the criminals off the street for a long time and actually being a punishment - something some English prisons are no longer) we would not be worrying about the death penalty. Because our justice system is letting dangerous people out onto the streets again where, surprise surprise, they re-offended almost straight away, the people start feeling that if that person had been executed we wouldn't be in this situation.

To sum up; I don't want to see the death penalty in England but I do want to start seeing some very severe sentencing for all criminals and I want to see the prison system reformed so that the prisoners enjoys only the basics (they forgo their 'human rights' - They have the right to food [basic], education[monitored - no as not to be abused], shelter[basic - double cell] and to be safe for their stay[more than they afforded their victims].

If the justice system did what it is supposed to do, which is serve the community (and not the prisoner - which seems to be the case at the moment - The establishment cares more for the welfare of the prisoner than the victims of the crimes) and keep offenders off the street (I personally don't care if they get rehabilitated, as long as they are off the streets and away from me - they can stay in there forever) then I don't think anyone would be too bothered about the death penalty.

I don't agree with the death penalty either and for the exact same reason...but, would we feel the same if it was our son or daughter, mother, sister? Would we even care if there could have been a miscarriage of justice if we felt the anger victims families must feel?

I have no idea but I think that depends on how you perceive justice - punishment or revenge.

Old world justice was more about revenge as opposed to modern justice which is punishment (or should be). Of course the victim’s family’s wishes have to be taken into account but not to the point where is becomes a matter of revenge.

I have no idea how I'd feel if something was to happen to a loved one but I do know that my mind wouldn't be functioning correctly due to the anger and pain. I think I would probably want to be left alone in a room with the criminal, for a day or so, where I would experiment with household items such as a fork, vinegar, candles and so on....

Well, I think that's just it. We feel justice is served when it isn't impacting us personally. I don't think grief allows for distinction in this case.

I donot believe in the death penalty. However as a society, if we are to have it at all, the actual "deed" should be carried out in the open for all to see. Not in some secret chamber behind closed doors.

MURDER,RAPE....

Hmmm there was a time i was for the death penalty...But as some stated some time a innocent person can be send to the afterlife by mistake. As the system is not what it should be. But i just thought of a idear that punishes the criminal and prevent him from (i hope) doing it again. Also you don't have to pay for his imprisining. Just chop of a arm or a leg! In cases of Child molest i say take the part that makes the problem too! Only you will have a handicap problem ! But it beats having all those psycho's out there!

Victims of who? I think the real victims here are the ones who get hurt, or killed. What if your mother died? Or is that what your saying?

Cheers

I live in a State that has used the Death Penalty (Tennessee). To be honest I think there are a lot of people that deserve to be killed. However, I know there are times that innocent people are convicted and that would really be a shame. I do believe there are times when there are no doubt that someone has killed a person in cold blood and IMHO they should be put to death. and I am not for the easy way either. I don't care if they suffer. I will say this... if someone hurts my wife or kids (that seams silly saying kids, my sons are 20 and 23) they better hope that go to prison for the rest of their life.

something that happened here in Tennessee, Knoxville if I remember correctly. A couple out for the night are carjacked and are beat and raped, then they killed them both..... they arrest the guys and I'm not sure if its went to trial yet or not. these guys deserve death, Something I forgot to mention, there was also a girl in part of the kidnapping and killing.
Here is a link to the case.

I remember reading about that. In cases like that I think everyone feels something drastic should be done. But you touched on it yourself. What if someone innocent is put to death? I'm sure many think someone found guilty is guilty, and I'm sure they are positive they are guilty. But, short of someone confessing, and witnesses, and video of them committing the crime, you can't be sure.

Agree with the wife and kids statement...or at least the kids anyways.


Anphrax- Exactly what i was saying.

I guess it'd have to be solid facts like transient said. cause now a days some girls say they were raped by so and so just for attention. My best friend was accused of rape by another friend of mine and I confronted her and said that it was bull bacause you can't really be raped when YOU were the one on top and he was basically passed out. I was in the same room.

So ya, solid proof has to be shown. A video, or something concrete. but if they are proven guilty. kill them

Murder
Molestation
Rape

However, in the bible, and according to Jewish Law, in order to put someone to death for homicide there must be two witnesses.

So I believe that there must be concrete proof to put a person to death. If there is not enough concrete proof I believe the person should have prison time.

Capital punishment is a bit extreme but I feel extreme measures are required with extreme cases.

There have been cases documentated through history where some serial killers have been caught and proven 200% without a doubt that they were responsible for the crime committed. Examples that come to mind:
* Andrei Chikatilo (Russia)
* Dennis Rader (USA)
* Fred West (UK)
Serial killers in my eyes are in need of this extreme justice. Keeping them locked up only ends up costing the state/country/county money that could be best spent elsewhere.

For other [serious] crimes, many of which were mentioned earlier then I believe execution is necessary but only when it is proven 200% that the right person has been caught. If there's any doubt then no execution but either way - a long prison sentence of a few years to enable other evidence to come to light.

Of course there'll be errors in judgement - the system will never be 100% foolproof.

We should not be stockpiling criminals. Rehabilitation should be our goal. For those unwilling to be rehabilitated...death. The justice system could even recoup some of the money spent by charging a person for the right to kill a criminal...seems there would be a lot of sick people who would love the opportunity to do this legally.

Basically I am saying I don't care how they die...but only after years of rehabilitation have been tried. However our current system is not designed for rehabilitation...and until we as a society decide to invest in such a system we as a society are responsible for crime and should not put to death someone else for what we all are responsible for.

The intelligent killers who have been rehabilitated (read: served their sentence) will learn as to how they got caught and avoid that in the future.

It's proven that those with the taste for killing (mostly those without a reason, ie desire, self gratification) will kill again. The more people a killer has killed the more they believe they can get away with it and will continue to do so.

Stats show that the majority of serial killers are male, 20s, single and highly intelligent.

I think the highly intelligent aspect of their profile is propagated by the police so as to not question the stupidity of not catching them the first time.

1st degree murder and rape of any person, be it child or adult, deserves a death penalty. However, the judicial system can be flawed in many cases and killing a person as punishment for a crime that they did not commit, yet a jury/judge decided that they commited, is just as bad as the crime itself.

There you would be wrong. There is a link between intelligence and crime. The less intelligence people have a higher chance of becoming criminals and the higher intelligent people have a higher chance of becoming criminals. Same goes for people with learning problems, those people have a high chance of becoming criminals. Don't know that exact % but it's rather high.

My view: Death penalty as we have it now in the US or China or anywhere else that i know off, is obsolete.

Besides the guilt cant allways be fully garantueed or certain classes of people having more change of getting higher punishment due to having less money to buy lawyers or due to be of different color/believe/religion, the errors that might be made, the mass media that lets certain ppl get higher punishment then others who do the same or worse, and such

There is no crime that justifies death penalty. Either the crime is not serious enough or the death penalty is not enough. US takes lots of time and money, making the society suffer more.

There has to be a way to let them be useful instead of killing them by gas or chair or gunshot or whatever they have now (that i know of). Dunno, crashtest dummies, medical experiments (someone has to test the new medication), weapon tests,...
But only if guilt is prooven.

I remember seeing that vid of that gang kicking some guy to death cause he accidently bumped into them. I say, remove the gang members involved from society and go test some aids medicines on them orso.

But in reality, that's not doable. Whatever you do, it ll never undo the crime so it's all in vain. Just make sure the criminals get removed from normal society and that they cant get back, unless they get some sort of revelation. Fixed 5 years in jail then release sentences we have now (all around the world) usually miss the target. It basicly creates a 'i dont want to ever go to jail again' instead of what it should aim for:'i regret doing that and i wish i could undo it, i am going to do something back for society, going try to help'. But goodluck with the second. Even if they get such a revelation, it's very hard to proove it.
There is also crimes that currently get high lvls of punishment that shouldnt get so punished. (and the other way around.) Here in belgium for example, you can protect yourself but not your property. So the jewel shop owner who got thieves wrecking his store and stealing lots of expensive stuff for the fifth time orso (he had no insurance cause he got stolen from so much that they all refused to give him insurance), he got trialled for 'manslaughter with the intent to kill'. He shot the thief in the back while the thief was running away with the loot. (The info i got might be incorrect, i tried googling for it but simular cases seem to happen regularly in belgium.)
There should be a clear definition of who is the victim and who is the criminal and criminals should have less rights then the victims. Currently, our system entirely fails at that and nobody is going to do anything about it anytime soon.

No death penatly untill you get a justice system that works. If we had death penalty, that shop owner could have gotten the death penatly. It's highly unfair.

Sorry for the incoherent reply, but i follow my train of thought and i dont know in advance where it ll go and i sometimes loose it halfway a line.

A big subject and thanks to transient for bringing this to us. If you asked me, "Do You think its right to have the death penalty", I would say "NO", however, I admit to getting very hot where children are Involved.

I would probably advocate life Imprisonment, with no chance of parole, but how would that effect the mind set of those knowing there was no hope?

However, I fully admit to being a hypocrite, since if anyone harmed any of mine, I would track them down on their release and their end would be hard but final.

I appreciate this makes me no better than the perpetrator of the original crime, but we can all be detached and have fine Ideals until it it affects any one of us personally.

P.

Kid fiddlers & rapists are the lowest of the low & deserve everything they get.

The death penalty would be best IMO, some previous posts here have said life imprisonment, but for these types of crimes i disagree!

just my 2 cents!

Crimes that can completely ruin someones life deserves the loss of the offenders life. Crimes like murder, intentional murder I should say, child molestation, and many many more deserve the death penalty.

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Sometimes I think you should do unto others as they have already done to you, or in punishment cases, done to other people.

Having ginger hair.

Nar none do, its too easy if not slightly barbaric.

Wow, how to quote mine 101!! (You would make a good proponent of Intelligent Design.... )

This verse is to encourage people to behave favourably to one another NOT to go around killing people because they are bad people! What about that verse which commands you to turn the other cheek? Why didn't you show that one....?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, in other words; treat them how you would like them to treat you.

Death to the traitor.......

But in my country..death sentence are also to:
1. Drug dealers
2. Murderers
3. Arm smugglers

But it takes many years for the execution, and if these offenders behave well and show repentance, the King will allow the death sentence to be change to lifetime sentence.

I end up being torn on this ... and the older I get the more gray areas I see.

Back when I was about 16 or 18 my response would have been that killing is wrong - no exceptions. The older I get, the more I think that the prison system does nothing positive for either society or the inmate. I do think twoplus has a fair point about theory versus when its something personal.

It makes me wonder ... if we are locking someone up to rehabilitate them, why is this so spectacularly unsuccessful?
What is the point of prison as punishment if someone is incapable of changing?
If someone is not capable of rehabilitation, is it not cruel to actually keep them alive & incarcerated when they will never be part of society?

I don't have any answers - these are just the questions that plague me currently.

I'm with Bastet on this...it is one huge grey area where gut instincts need to be tempered with rationality. There are many that deserve death...but who is qualified to decide. Indeed who is qualified to decide who is qualified. The problem with a death sentance is that there is absolutely no reversing it once carried out. On the other hand, a real life sentence would cost the tax-payers millions. In the future, forensic science techniques may be able to prove beyond a shadow of doubt who is guilty or not..but it still comes back to who is qualified to decide the perpetrators fate. Perhaps some sort of mass consensus system may be possible using info. tehnology - which leads to a whole new series of grey areas about public perception etc... I'm afraid I have no ready answers, except to say that IF guilt could be 100% proven, then life imprisonment and enforced medical experimentation on child rapists and murderers seems more fitting than a quick easy way out for them.

Hey fellow Canuck,

Just wondering, If someone murdered or raped someone in your family, would you not want to kill them yourself.
Why spend millions of dollars of tax money to keep them in jail, where they say they are over crowded anyway.

Someone has done something to my family.
If I had ten miutes alone with the *.*.*, they wouldn't have to spend a dime on him. Except maybe for a coffin.
You play, you pay. They both have been in jail 25 years, every year we go and tell them why we don't want them
back on the street. It's best for them to stay in jail, for there own sake.
Just add up the money they have spent keeping them there. Take a life, pay with your life.

Now if you rape someone, that's different, I would be the first one to take the knife and de*** them.
Then throw them in jail with all the people that are murderes. Get it right in the back, if you get my drift.

Of course these are just my views, not of the family of the person's in jail.

Believe me, I see what you're saying computerdesk ... but if death is the penalty then you kill him, his family kill you, your family kill some of that family ... pretty soon theres no one left at all.

When your bird eat's all the Ben & Jerrys and puts the tub back in the freezer and says nothing........Oh man i could strangle her.

Or takes your beer out of the fridge to make room for something that is in no way more important than cold beer...divorce at the very least.

Our prison system in not designed to rehabilitate nor are the sentences handed down by the justice system. Currently we punish people for their crimes by locking them up for a specified amount of time. If we were truly interested in rehabilitation...time would not be factor...progress toward changing would. If a criminal knows they will get out of jail in 5 years regardless of any changes in behavior or attitude then what is the incentive to change?



Everyone is capable of changing...the difficultly is convincing them it is in their best interest to change and then providing long term support to verify change has occurred.



Depends on whether you have a belief system or not...if there is a god then killing them would be merciful so that they could proceed with their afterlife...if there is no god then every life is special and universally unique once dead the uniqueness is forever gone..who would have such a right to decide death...only god and he is either unconcerned with the affairs of humans or non existent.

Hey yourself. When I said I was against the death penalty, it meant I was against a government sanctioned killing.

Heh i agree 100%..........

Pedophiles - Once you cross a certain line, you forfeit your rights as a human, I'll gladly put two barrels to their heads.

Dictator/Torturer - Any world leader who believes it's moral, ethical and legal to invade a sovereign nation and kill their people - and torture the rest. 2 in the back of the head, no problem.

Religious Zealots - These special creatures believe it's ok to impose their ill-gotten views on others and spread their 'faith' by shooting doctors and blowing up delis in suicide attacks.

Corrupt Officials - of any kind.. Preists, cops, politicians.. If you've assumed a role as an authority, you best not abuse it.

I think there's too much political correctness going on in the world today. Too much sensitivity training and not enough accountability. Face it, some people are just corrupt, senseless or simply retarded and I don't believe you should get special treatment for it.

If you're smart enough to pull off a scandal, coup or secretly molest a child, you're smart enough to know better. And you don't get to waste our time and money trying to recover. You blew it. NEXT!

in england there is an increasing sense that there is no punishment anymore. it's really going to hell and in most cities you will encounter groups of what we call "chavs" or "hoodies".
they are the source of most petty crime in england. these people usually live off the state, have five or so kids which grow up to live off the state, steal the property of those who do contribute and generally make a nuiscance of themselves. theyre breeding fast and seeing as they are expendable i believe the laws should be toughened to the degree that if incontrevertable evidence of an assault on someone or a robbery is commited by these people then they hang.
it would soon stop them and after a while the laws could be changed.
everyone thinks they can have whatever they want nowadays and violence and stupidity seem to be glorified through the media.
a man was robbed and stabbed to death outside his home a while back simply because it was easier for the scum which did it to take what they wanted.
another man in wales was killed because he had long hair.
a gang of boys between 14 and 17 decided to beat a couple to death because they were what they called "goths".

this filth needs to be wiped out one way or another. capital punishment would send a much needed message to english society that you either toe the line or get the f*ck out.

i know this sounds like fascism but i really stopped caring about hat long ago.

parking in front of my house to visit someone that isnt me deserves death.

How about democratically elected leaders who lie; and of course their undemocratic counterparts, together with their cabinet buddies.

100th post I am so proud!

i say we just kill anyone who chooses to sit too close to me on the train without having a knowledge of personal hygiene. that is death worthy. i mean it's called deodorant, it's widely available.

"I was admiring your handiwork last night... Pity you didn't do anything about those bloody 'hoodies. Hanging around.. Loitering...... Sitting.." - Hot Fuzz

The point of the death penalty is twofold:

1: Prevent the offender from committing the crime they were convicted of again (rape, murder, etc.).
2: Deter others from committing crimes that will get them the death penalty.


You can argue all you want about #2, but there is no room for debate on #1. The only other thing to debate is what crimes deserve the death penalty? Beyond rape and murder, I'm not certain, but I feel that it should be left up to the judges as much as possible. I am against minimum sentences (but not maximum) as they remove the judges ability to sentence criminals solely by his discretion.

Stanley "Tookey" Williams deserved to get the death penalty. Whether or not he had repented his 'sins' is not up to me to judge. If he truly did, all the better. However, realizing the error of hiss ways does not excuse him for his actions, which called for the death penalty.

I'm of the opinion that not only should the UK bring back the death sentence, for murderers and child rapists, (rapists who target adults should be physically castrated), but we should also re-introduce some other corporal punishments from years gone by, I think a lot of petty criminals would think twice before say mugging someone if they thought they would end up with 100 lashes of a birch , or 10 days in the stocks with kids throwing stuff at you and anyone who felt like it, giving you a kick as they walked by. The system in place at the moment is aimed at defending the offender not punishing them. Let’s also get the lazy sods out of prison and onto work gangs like some states of America. I’m also in favour of tattooing offenders on the forehead, so you always know just who you’re talking to, or having a drink with.

Sorry if my views offend some, but that’s just how I feel.

And each of their pinky toes and fingers cut off then burned at the wounds, their A very bad thing and salt poured over it proceeding to dipping their lower body into gasoline and lighting them on fire. Then they should be stoned by the public, but not to death. I would rather they be forced to live the rest of their life in agony over the punishment they just received.


BTW, I'm usually against the death penalty because like previously stated dying is pretty much the easy way out. "their are fates far worse than death"~whoever said that.