So i was having this chat with a girl and she was buggin me. So i made up some link, i swear i made it up, which inadvertently linked to a damming image file.
The link was something like http://imagefile.com/marie/08/1.jpg.
Now she opened it and saw some model posing , well - without clothes. She began to taunt me calling me a pervert. I contested that it was a mistake and even if i was watching porn , there is no real harm! She called me more names and said it was perverse !
So my question is , more for the females , Is watching porn really that disgusting/perverse/sick/desperate ..etc

I would say thats a definite yes.

No because I don't think looking at pornography is necessarily perverse. Sexuality is natural and pornography is a part of that. Nor do I think that pornography is in it's self perverse. There is a lot of it and that makes me think that it is a cultural norm. The definition of the word pervert is one who deviates from the norm. Therefore the ones that never view pornography are in essence the perverse ones.

Heres the thing tho..Sexuality is normal, but, in one's morals, if you were raised with my morals, then you would think that sex before marriage is wrong, and all others, as such, is wrong. Now im not saying im perfect, and I've seen my share of porn, and have had sex before marriage, but, its still perverse, in my opinion.

Sod them all

It's your life and as long as you live true to what you believe in and the rules of the society that you live in thats all that counts.

Not all pornography is perverse in its raw form. I feel that it depends how the viewer feels or reacts to it that makes it perverse or not. There are some forms of pornography that are quite illicit and I'd be much more quicker to call them perverse but different "strokes" for different folks

well I wouldn't say you're a perv unless your mind is filled up with nothing but chicks... porn rules tho.

I edited my reply before I saw yours dd, take a look at it again.

Morals are elastic, they stretch and change with circumstances as you have proved with your admissions in your last post.

You are right. I too have my flaws, like the fact that ive had sex and have seen porn. But, in that, I know that I am a sinner by nature. It doesnt make it alright, but, it does say that it happens. Now if I were to want to look at porn cause I was bored, that would be wrong. If I wanted to look at porn because I wanted to...um, relieve stress, its still wrong. Admitting that I look at it doesnt make it any less wrong.

Think it's more the kind of porn you watch ;)

I would say no to lesbians but YES to bukkake

sex is a sin? I thought it's normal, by nature.

What makes it wrong though dd? What are the consequences of looking at somebody with no clothes on? (behave ) Really, there's nothing I can think of. Nobody gets hurt if I look at pictures of naked women, nobody has to go without food, no wars are started because of it. I don't get why unclothed people are such a bad thing.





*Is considering moving this thread to the banana republic*

Lol, maybe you shoud Hash..

Whats wrong with it, is that you are lusting. In my religion *Christianity*, its in the 10 commandments. Thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife, thou shall not commit adultery.

Looking upon another woman with lust in your heart while married is lusting. Lusting is a sin, in my religion.

Im not sure exactly how to word it, but, pornography is wrong, I.M.O, and I know its wrong. Wanting to be free of that sin, for me, is something I have to keep as a standard of living.

http://www.dianedew.com/porn.htm
http://www.carm.org/questions/sex_pornography.htm

They say it better than I can.

But, I fear this may turn into a religious debate, so it may be in my best interest to leave, as it may get hijacked for religion, and not just the topic of pornography.

I can't see any reason why watching pornography would make you a pervert. The whole belief that watching porn makes you a pervert is propaganda that stems from the fact that 1. The US really is the most prude country in the world, and 2. It's another form of control. ( I refer you to 1984)

And that right there is what is happening to people these days. They keep lowering the bar of *Whats Ok* until its just low enough to where every person thinks that its ok to cheat, or that its ok to look at porn, when the wife is in the other room, or that its ok to look at that magazine. If this were older times, it would be a whole hell of a lot different. Women used to dress decently, didnt show off their skin every which way of sunday, and were honest and faithful to their husbands. Same goes with Men.

I love it..10 votes and mine is the only *Yes*

OK then, what about these paintings:
The birth of venus
Venus dormida

Both were done by christians in arguably the most religious period in europe's history as far as christianity is concerned. Why are they and the people who look at and buy this kind of art not perverts? And while I'm at it what about the sistine chapel? there's loads of naked people depicted in there. Even God doesn't seem to mind it, as in this pic.





Offtopic: As far as I know the commandment you mention is "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's ass" No mention of wives.

Anything that is contentious within the society that we live in is open to debate. That includes sports, entertainment, the so called celebrity culture, and so on.

Porn is a sympton of the degeneration of previous standards but so is television. As our society has evolved so more and more people are coming into it and the means to make money are controlled by fewer and fewer mega-corporations. Techology provides a means for ordinary people to make money by shagging for the entertainment of others and whilst they continue to make money so the industry will flourish.

As to its moral correctness, that is for the individual to judge for himself. Those that have viewed porn have contributed to the industry and therefore accepted its values. To say but I only wanted to see what it was like is like a woman saying I'm a little pregnant.

To be or not to be that is the question, whether 'tis nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of trying to justify viewing porn is not really a subject that is going to go anywhere...

Straight out of Exodus

You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

You're point about cheating and the wife can be immediately disproved by couples that watch porn together. As for women dressing differently, who cares? What harm does it do if someone wears a skirt that isn't below the knees? I see no correlation between men and women being less faithful and pornography. In the older times women used to be hung for being smarter than men

As for the pics...None of which were painted by by jesus himself, nor his immediate followers, nor anybody who knew Jesus.

Heres the problem. The main reason people convert to christianity is because they know a christian
The main reason people leave christianty is because they know a christian.

Nobody is perfect, and each person has their own views for whats acceptable and what isnt. Each person also stretches their views so that it will fit into their morals. Not one person lives perfectly by the bible. If we did, we wouldnt even be having this debate right now. I know im a sinful person, and I feel bad about having sex before marriage, or even looking at pornography. I personally wont listen to rap music or be around women who do, as the music promotes sexual promiscuity, and im not for that.

Wow, am I even on topic anymore?

If so, there's a hell of a lot of perverts out there.

Like anything, too much porn = not good.

But I think it can easily be a simple stress reliever, etc...

All you are tellin me Affinity, is that couples together think its ok to watch porn, instead of having love and passion in their lives.

As for women dressing differently, Its not about the skirt below the knees, is about the skirt so high you can see her thong, and that is a device used to make men lust after a woman so that she can have more attention.

With women being hung, thats just saying that society has made advances. Not all changes are good advances tho.

So looking at naked bodies in pictures and lusting after your neighbour's wife is bad but having a slave to do your bidding isn't?

Edit: do I have to remind you where the sistine chapel is?

I'll leave your other points for others to dispute, but, erm, why the bloody hell can't you have both??

I know people who do both... and lead very happy lives. In fact, one of the people I look up to most (another forum) is married to his wife in an open relationship, as in, polyamorous. As long as each person knows about the other's 'activities'. It seems a very logical choice to me, considering the rate at which humans 'lose interest', and they have been married happily for over 15 years now...

What I'm really telling you is that it's something couples can enjoy together to enhance their sex life and bring more pleasure to the relationship, thus strengthening the bonds that hold them together.



You not being able to avoid looking at a woman because of her clothing is your fault for not having self control. I know from your earlier post that this whole lust is bad thing comes from your religion, well if it's so bad to lust after someone that is still on your shoulders for not being morally pure enough according to your own religion. Don't blame the person doing nothing wrong because you have no self control. (by saying you i'm not talking about you directly, i'm using it in that way that means any one who is doing the things.)



I agree, and one of the advances society has made is that we are not so close minded and hating of ourselves that we must force people to hide themselves. Isn't this the very thing that women in the middle east are trying to achieve, the ability to be as women from other countries who don't have to hide their faces and bodies?

Need I remind you that the sistine chapel is a major CATHOLIC religious relic, not a true Christian art. Catholocism is a whole `nother topic that I wont get into within this thread.

As far as goes Slavery, Here ya Go

That is ignorant. The fact is that most of those women WANT to dress like that, hiding their faces. They want to do it because they want to be treated as equals. They hide their faces to put themselfs on the same line as men, so that they wouldn't be judged as women. It is a matter of honour to these women and they take pride in wearing those scarfs.

Masturbating improves your immunity towards bacteria, helps you "find yourself" sexually, produces endorphins (those things make you happy) and just generally improves your stamina. Is that also bad thing?


I can't masturbate without pornography. Wheter it is something from a dvd or just using my imagination, it is still pornography.


There is nothing wrong with it and if religions would be more open to the concept of things like that, I bet the amount of people quiting from the church would drop.

Porn?? hell no, its not perverse, > porn that would include non legal or non human elements in my opinion is perverse! just my 2¢, peace!

Because The bible specifically says not to covet thy neighbors wife. Whether or not you are happy in that decision is up to your own morals and standards. Being swingers is definitely not alright.



Its not about having pleasure. Sex within marriage is about love and intimacy. Its about being bonded with your mate, not just wanting more pleasure.

I can look at plenty of women who dress provocatively and dont think one immoral thing about them. My first thought usually is *Why the heck is she dressing like that? Does she want everyone to know she's a hooker?* I wouldnt say she isnt doing anything wrong by wanting the hormonal male attention.

theres nothing wrong with not wanting to hide yourself and look beautiful. Its looking like tralier park trash who wants to sleep with everyone that is wrong.

Don't judge things without fully analyzing them... there is an exception to everything :)

(Just friendly debate)

Thank you. Its about being treated as equals. When I look at women, I dont see a piece of meat to be devoured, sexually. I see a person who has their own life, their own set of problems, their own loves and hatreds, just like me. If women feel like they have to hide themselves to be seen as an equal, while its sad that society has pushed them to it, and Im sad to see it, im glad they have the self respect for self preservation.

That's beside the point. They are (iconic) paintings of naked people in a christian building. What I was asking is are they or are they not pornographic and if not then why not? There's one on there of a woman wearing a green dress pulling down the front to reveal her breasts to a man kneeling before her. Sounds like porn to me.

I quote from your link:

Oh well if it's not a racist thing it must be cool then

"The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery"

"It" also showed how "it" felt towards children of the egyptians by killing them, thus giving them a different position infront of the god, and isn't this a type of slavery? I mean "it" did give few people a certain advantages (keeping their children alive) and taking something from the others (killing their)... If god does exist, this is really bad case of slavery. It is kinda scary how god would favor few from meny..

Moving to BR

Another Quote, directly from my link

*The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more of a social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their family. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their master.*

Slavery wasnt the bad thing is used to be. It was simply a way for poor men to become wealthy again.

So many inconsistencies in the Bible, so many interpretations to make it look better... every time society starts to accept something the Bible condemned, people quickly change the interpretation to fit the modern world.

People just need to face the facts... the Bible was based on an ancient moral code that has barely any standing today.

Try reading the chapter of Leviticus... see what whacked-up nonsense you can find.

I love how (most) Christians only follow the parts of the Bible they feel like following...

Never mind the slavery thing, it's way off topic and I shouldn't have started us down that road. If you want to start another topic about that I'll be glad to argue against slavery not being a bad thing there.

So to the point. Are the paintings in the sistine chapel pornography or not?

First of all, if you ask any doctor, they will tell you that masturbation is perfectly normal. In fact, the older you are, the more important it becomes if you have no sex partner since the lack of sex has unpleasant aging effects (use it or lose it...). Since the purpose of pornography is to masturbate, or "enhance" an interpersonal sex experience, there is no way porn can be considered perverted. Also, as mentioned above, the statistics show that more people view it than don't....hence, "normal" would seem to be those who view it. The religious aspects of this really aren't relevant to this discussion...thats another topic entirely.

Point of interest: if two (or more) people have sex together involving the exchange of money, it is called prostitution and is illegal, and punishishable with a fine, and/or jail time. However, if the same people are filmed performing the exact same acts, they are considered actors and have committed no crime, and may be paid for their "work", and the film can be sold! It's not illegal to make porn! It's just illegal to have private, for pay sex!

Whats wrong with this picture?

You're right Wolvish. many *Christians* only follow the part they like the best. Thats one of our biggest downfalls as humans. We never give our true devotion to the whole bible, just parts of it. Its wrong, and it doesnt portray Christianity in a very good light, But at least knowing that its wrong is a start.

i think they are meant to represent homan beauty and innocence
in refrence to hash's comment about the paintings

Cornell

Quran being the law and it stating that a woman can not reveal a part of their body that is not necessary would show that I'm indeed not ignorant. Before making a claim like this you may want to verify the validity of the statement. It is in fact not about being equals, they don't hide themselves because they want to, they hide themselves because they have to and the punishment is severe for not doing so.

Whats wrong with the picture, sir rknightmd, is that pornography is wrong, and immoral to begin with, but, thats just my own opinion, as well as the bibles.


Alright Hash..I'll answer your question, tho i may get a lot of beating for it.

The sistine chapel. The question is if its pornographic or not. Well...there are many views on it. Some say yes, and that its just a bunch of unnecessary nudity. Others would call it *Art*. I call it a religioius relic for a religion that is more or less a cult, and shouldnt be taken seriously. In one aspect, it could be seen as art, as it does show the human body in all of its beauty and wonder. In another aspect, it could be seen as pornography. I could say thats its all a matter of perspective, when it comes to things like the sistine chapel, or even the shrine of David. What you do with the nude images could make you perverted. If you look at the pictures and masturbate to it, it could be seen, by that viewer, as pornography, and you could be called perverted. But, if you look upon it with respect for the art and dont have impure thoughts about it, it wouldnt be seen as pornographic, and you wouldnt be called a pervert.

Point in case, sistine chapel is more or a less a matter of perspective.

ALL humans were created equal, its humans that created ranks and ownership amongst humans! if we were all created equal ,then we should all have equal rights! forcing someone to do something is wrong in every way. the real big picture in the bible, more relevant to the new testament, is "love one another" as you would yourself. this being true how can any one say that they would force "themselves" to do thing bearring punishment if not complied with.

As far as I can tell all animals in nature watch what we are classifying pornography within our species. Religions ultimate crime is convincing people that sexuality is sinful, which of course you need to repent for and oh yea have you donated to god this month?

The only thing "wrong" with modern pornography is when a human is taken advantage of to make profit, if it's consenting adults then it's not "wrong".

As someone famous once said...

"my dear, we've already determined you're a whore...now we're just negotiating price."

If watching porn meant that you were a pervert then I'd say about 99% (a conservative estimate) of the world's male population would be classified as sexual deviants. As long as it doesn't involve animals or children (and in my opinion anything that could constitute a serious hygiene risk) then I'd say it was perfectly normal for you to be watching porn. Oh, of course...you weren't actually watching porn...it was just a terrible random, made-up link mistake...what are the chances...

well ive got a 17 year old daughter among 3 other daughters!
friendly or not NO DEBATE for me! You will be wrong everytime anyone tries to justify child porn!
as far as the non human element, to me, is perverse.... poor little fido!

Which Bible and I didn't know there was any text on the negative aspect of watching others have sex.

Isn't a prime tenent of a cult, blind faith without proof?

How is pron sex out of wedlock...it's just watching and we don't know if they folks on film are married or not.

Finally, I think this entire thread puts forth that everything is more or less a matter of perspective.

Although, I believe actually following all the Bible's rules is even MORE immoral...

i'll be honest......my imagination has lost itself since i learned of nudity......porn brings that imagination back

tell me this, just how many positions would you know without looking at a naked photo or movie? i'd be willing to bet you can count them in 10 digits.


Adam & Eve (their story) is what made the christian faith so shameful of it's own body, they covered their "private parts" with leaves, because they were ashamed, i am not ashamed, and never will be, i will continue to walk around my house and in a public place (when appropriate) completely naked, in front of strangers. consider this porn if you will, don't look if you must, but it will happen and i have no problem with it.

i believe that the only time someone will actually have a problem with it, and wish it removed or stricken from any place, person or shelf is when they themselves are uncomfortable with their own body and it's imperfections, something that is drilled into young people far too much these days "you are ugly, because you can't fit into a size negative."

but i'm off topic

look at porn, get a new idea, like the reverse J Loop, and enjoy a good 4 hour session. why? because you can.....because of porn......you can.