In many countries it seems when your locked up , on parole or even have a criminal record you loose your right to vote.
To me this is not democracy what if there are political prisoners? It was a crime committed by someone else ? What if you want your say on the law that got you in there in the first place ?

If the main aim of a prison is rehabilitation surely having the right to vote encourages people to be involved in society which is i think key to getting people to own their actions and become responsible for them.



I have just edited in a poll , I have kept it simple not many choices and can only sit on the fence with the second question. Sorry if you feel should have had more options please add a post with your thoughts(on the topic not so much the poll

Interesting topic..I suppose it boils down to whether prison is seen as punishment or rehabilitation...or 'brushing society's problems under the rug'
Perhaps different 'classes' of prisoner should be allowed to vote
This is clearly not a straight foward yes/no question...I will give it some thought

Good post, bubbeboots

If they want to.. I say let them.

It'd instantly elevate them in terms of contribution to goverment to positions higher than the huge percentage of registered voters that don't show up.

i think every citizen of the US should have a say in our government regardless of record...after all they still live here, work here and raise their children here. as far as criminal activities making the person, sure, there are plenty of people fit the stereotypical criminal thug description, but there are many people who have just made a mistake and want to move on from it. chances are the thug types wouldn't even bother showing up at the polls, so there is really no need to "classify" ex-felons. my main argument for this subject is how many people out there have done something that could be considered a felony and didn't get caught, but still have the right to vote? there are so many people out there, some of them the very politicians we are voting for, whose past, if known to the public, would make them ineligible to vote...alot of these so called upstanding citizens are running our country and our major companies...and yet the majority still think that people who have a felony record shouldn't vote. if only they knew...you could raise the same argument for illegal aliens as well...

In Australia where i live we have compulsory voting once over 18 . Some criminals would probably welcome not having to vote . Society precludes other people in society from voting ie minors or people with intellectual disabilities (who are unable to vote). Laws regarding these groups who do not vote have been made because it has been deemed those groups are not able to make informed decision and should not be made to vote. I would also argue people under 18 should have the right to vote if they want to - but that is another topic all together.

Criminals can make an informed decision there for I strongly believe they have the right to vote.

I agree I think we should be constantly reviewing the effectiveness of our prison systems and what role we want them to play

I think it has to be all or nothing, segregating eligibility only marginalizes once again.



Very good point many darksiders out there have a habit myself included. In our culture (DS) we are conscientious objectors to piracy laws.

Women were not allowed to vote in Australia until 1896
Indigenous Australians not until 1967- A deep scar in our countries history .

We look at that and think it is absurd for these groups not to have such a basic and defining right .
Will convicted criminals ever get the opportunity to vote if governments don't ever review why it is that they are not allowed to?

yes they should, moreover if anybody regardless of who they are or what they did, are denied the right to vote, they should not have to pay taxes of any type, what so ever.

edit: I also believe the minimun voting age should be moved up to 21, as well as mandatory military service, if only basic training.

I agree with you about the voting thing. Anyone should be allowed to. If denied then no taxes on them. IT makes sense

I disagree with raising the voting age limit, and I am against mandatory military service. If you raise the limit, then taxes should not kick in either until you are 21. Then again I have met many people under 21 who actually are intelligent, and many over 21 that are not. You simply can not base things on an age. I say this kind of stuff needs to be based on education/maturity/intelligence. (Same as having kids.)

There has to be some minimum standard for voting age.

Should a 6 year old vote? No
Should an 8 year old vote? No
Should a 10 yers old vote? No
.
.
.
.
.
Should a 30 year old vote? Yes
Should a 32 year old vote? Yes.

I think voting age requirement is trying to restrict voting to people who are intellectually capable of voting.

That would pretty much eliminate the entire state of Florida.

Prison has become a cakewalk. We have criminals actually committing crimes so they can get into prison get free food, television and even internet...and you think they should be allowed to vote?

Let's cost the honest taxpayers more money to enable convicts to vote....

Nope.
Voting is not like freedom of speech which I believe is an irrevocable right.
Voting is a privilege that is earned, just like respect, a lot of people want it but you must earn it.

I dont think that people with no respect for society should have a say in how it is run. Im gonna get a referendum as an example. Lets say that the goverment wants a referendum about abortion to see what the people think about it. And lets say felons are allowed to vote. And the Mr Rapist comes to the voting booth and votes anti abortion. Do you feel that his vote should even count in stuff like that? Or Mr Muderer that comes to vote anti euthanasia? I dunno ... feels wrong. So i say no, no right to vote for felons.

It's all about democracy...
I agree that prisoners should get be allowed to vote...

Not everyone who is convicted is a felon and not every felon is convicted!!
If the second category gets to vote, they why should the others be left out?

BTW, nice thought bubbleboots.. Should probably have a poll attached to this

I will keep this short but As an ex con I feel that yes we should be able to vote. The prison system is supposed to be rehabilitation stripping me of my right to vote is like admitting that the system doesn't work. It all seems very Kindergarten to me "you pee'd on the stry rug you can't ever pick the book for story time" It is usually called the Department of CORRECTIONS If you don't feel that it does Correct a behavior or rehabilitate Just call it the Department of this guy will always be a F!@# up with a valueless opinion. If nothing else temporarily suspend the right to vote until said "Rehab" is complete.

I reckon there are alot of people who do not want murderers, rapists, pedophiles, etc. helping make the laws. I think it's best to compromise: If you've served your time, you should get to vote when you are released, you did your punishment and rehabilitation and it shouldn't continue for the rest of your life. But if you've done something so bad you've been given a life sentence, you are effectively no longer a part of society and therefore should not be included in making that society's laws and decisions.

Probably one of the main concerns is that criminals will want to change the law in a way that decreases the punishment for the offenses they're inclined to commit. But if criminals (or lawbreakers who are not caught) are a substantial portion of the population to the extent that they would win a majority vote on such issues, perhaps the law does need to be changed.

As an Englishman (with Irish ancentry) who was convicted of a crime (in England) that would be a Felony in the US - of course i should be able to vote (which under British law i still can)

It would be a breach of my Human Rights to take away my ability to change the government, that may, or may not have been wrong in convicting me in the first place.

and the second poll in this thread has a missing option, it should be

1) A Right
2) A Priveledge
3) COMPULSORY

For those wondering what crime I commited - I burnt down a paedophiles house, he wasn't home at the time, and no-one else was injured, i served 21 months of a 3 year sentence and have been crime (and drug-free) for 5 years (last halloween)

back ON-TOPIC

Speaking AS an ex-felon (4-20 laws)(cannabis), I can only answer to what I know. In both California (where convicted) and Arkansas (current residence), anyone not currently in prison, on parole, or felony probation can vote if otherwise qualified. I believe it is the same in most parts of the USA.

I think convicted felons should be allowed to vote, where there is a democracy, because in a democracy everyone's views should be valued equally.

Everyone's? I should value and support the rights of a child molester or mass murderer? In a democracy the majority can vote to exclude the views or votes of any minority.

Believe that sex offenders are now on parole for life (in the USA)--precluding them ever voting. As an ex-felon, I value my privilege and duty to vote more now than ever.

Why I am glad that the US is NOT a true "democracy"--we have a Constitutional framework in place to help protect individual rights from the "tyranny of the majority".

We are a true democracy, but our democracy is not absolute. The constitution has within it the means to change it. With a large enough majority individual rights could be removed.

I will agree with this ^^^ in principle--but I prefer the term "Republic". Most people when they think of "democracy" think of the "majority rules". Well, a majority is 51% and that is not near enough to change the US Constitution. The Bill of Rights has remained unmolested since 15 December 1791.



de·moc·ra·cy

1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections2: a political unit that has a democratic government3capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States <from emancipation Republicanism to New Deal Democracy — C. M. Roberts>4: the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority5: the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges



re·pub·lic

1 a (1): a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2): a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government b (1): a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law (2): a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government c: a usually specified republican government of a political unit <the French Fourth Republic>2: a body of persons freely engaged in a specified activity <the republic of letters>3: a constituent political and territorial unit of the former nations of Czechoslovakia, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or Yugoslavia

Only 2 states allow people to vote from prison: Maine & Vermont.
http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewresource...?resourceID=286

Time for me to weigh in here... [RANT]

As an ex-con and a current "criminal" by legal definition as I break the law in some way every day I believe that EVERY person should be allowed to vote no matter what in a democracy.

Look, as someone so inaccurately pointed out, people are not TRYING to get into prison for the free room and board... prison is NOT a cakewalk... at least, not where I did time.... Prison is brutal... the laws are corrupt as well as the politicians and the police and the prison guards and administration...

Currently, there are over 2.4 million people locked up in the US... it is NOT about rehabilitation... and it's not really about punishment... it's an industry.... it generates hundreds of thousands of jobs... not only for the guards and the prison administrators... but for the courts... the clerks... the construction crews... the vendors.... the towns that spring up around prisons.... and everything else that the prisons directly or indirectly help create... think of all the food that prisons consume... the supplies that are needed... the raw materials needed to build and maintain prisons... the finished goods that are trucked in and brought by rail from the shipyards and railheads... it's NOT a Corrections System... it's a Prison Industry!!! And it's only getting worse as the value of the dollar falls and our economy continues to tank...

On a side note to the originator of this thread... You say that you are from Australia.... and I'm sure that you're aware that Australia started as a penal colony (aside from the indigenous Australians that already lived there)... but did you know that, were I to apply for a work Visa to your country, I would be categorically denied based upon my past convictions that I already served my time for? Can you give me the definition of Ironic?

[/RANT]

~tweak1488

The MOST powerful union in the State of California is the CCPOA (California Correctional "Peace" Officers Association). Go figure^^^^^.

I think that felons that are incarcerated should have no right to vote. I would consider this right as part of the freedom they had removed from them on custodial sentencing by a court of law.

If a felon has been released after paying his custodial debt to society then the right to vote should be returned to him along with his other freedoms.

AGREED.

But to let you know how screwed up the Bureaucracy is here in the States, I got a summons for Jury Duty once while I was in State Prison (LOFL)

I believe that felons should be able to vote. Especially in a country like America where some surprisingly petty crimes are considered felonies. For instance, assault and battery is a felony, and if you get into a fight, you're going to be arrested for assault and battery whether you attacked the other individual or you were attacked, now I think it's ridiculous to revoke someone's right to vote because of a simple fist fight. Possession of drugs is a felony, and I also think it's crossing the line to revoke someone's right to vote because they had a joint.

When you're in the highest political office in a state, performing your job is not a right, nor a privilege. It's a duty. If you live in a democracy, that's your situation: You're in the highest political office. It's your duty to perform the tasks that come with the job, and the consequences of your performance are your responsibility. You screw up and place the wrong people in the wrong positions, the responsibility is yours. Don't blame the president or the congress. They may be malevolent idiots, but it was your job to keep the malevolent idiots out of power.

Quite obviously, being responsible for every single mess the politicians make, is not a privilege. If it was merely a right, then only idiots would avail themselves of it, which would result in idiocracy, rather than democracy. Therefore, if voting is not a duty, then it's not a true democracy. Of course, most who believe they live in democracies actually live in idiocracies...

As with other rulers, populations come with flaws. Even the least royal tendencies of a king, are a part of the royal person. Even the least presidential motives of a president, are a part of the presidents motivation. Even the most rigidly conservative paragraph jockey is a part of the people, and so is the copyright-infringing prisoner in cellblock C. Even the guy doing life, with first hand experience of how it's possible to be stiched up for murder, is a part of the people. That even goes if he's guilty as hell, and his first hand experience comes from stiching up someone else. It gets even worse: The CEO's of the multinational companies that regularily screws the entire economy over, are also part of the people.

In a democracy, they all have a duty to vote. If you hinder them in performing that duty, then you hinder democracy. If the law denies them the vote, then it's not a democracy. It's enough to drive anyone nuts, and, beyond doubt, Churchill had a point when he said that "democracy is the worst form of government ever invented, with the exception of all other forms of government" (paraphrased).

Something to take comfort in: Convicted felons voting is not a problem, unless the majority of the voters are convicted felons, and if that's the case, the fact that felons are voting is the least of your problems...

As to the finer points in what constitutes a democracy, most of them are irrelevant here. The precise procedure through which the people rules is beside the point. Before it can be a "rule of the people", the entire people must be included in the rule. "The rule of some of the people over all of the people" is not democracy, and can never be democracy, no matter how much we play with definitions. The exception is if we accept a differentiation between the subjects of a regime and the people of a regime, but going down that path, you can define anything as democracy, depending only on your mood and personal preferences...

If people who watch professional wrestling are allowed to vote……than I say why not let felons vote.

As a ex-convicted felon myself I think it is definitely a right. I am a tax paying contributing member of the society I live and see no reason why I should not vote. Chances are if a felon decides to vote he probably has enough sense to do so, considering I know many felons who could care less about voting anyways. I definitely think it is a right, No I dont think jailed felons should vote as they are in prison as part of their punishment, but when they have done the time that the judicial system saw fit I think they should get to vote.

I personally don't believe that felons should be allowed to vote for the duration of their incarceration.

A felon has been removed from society due to their actions being deemed illegal. They have had their rights to freedom and personal choice removed based on a consequence of their actions and as such they should not be allowed to participate in the societies choice of representation.

They are also insulated from the community and do not officially contribute to the constituency population in which their prison resides and as such should not be allowed to choose which MP goes to parliament to represent that constituency.

Once their term is served however I see no reason for them not to be allowed to vote again. They are then (hopefully) fully functional contributing members of their community and should have a say in who represents them in government.

In summery:

NO whilst in prison
YES when released.

After time is served I think all rights should be given back. End of story.

i dont know where the misunderstanding is but felons are allowed to vote in the us, as long as they are not active on parole.

all they have to do is register to vote, at least in nevada and california.

could not have said it better

As a convicted Felon myself, I find it BULLSHIT. After doing time for a non-dangerous crime, I believe that we should have some if not all of our US Human right's restored. But, is that the way the country operates. HELL NO. The thing that really get's me, is once your in the system. It's hard to find yourself a way out. In other words I ROCK THE VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So if I get imprisoned for downloading, I'd still like to have the right to vote. Bearing in mind that laws change according to social change, if it was going to be limited, perhaps those excluded should be those convicted of crimes that can never be acceptable, such as murder, rape, theft etc. Dunno, just a thought!

Basically I think it is a Priviledge to vote or hold a drivers licence not a right, there are ppl on the road that should not have a licence because they really don't know how to drive as per normal " drive to slow ,can't see the speed limit, change lanes when not safe , barge in have no idea of the rules etc. " this is a sore point with me. " PRIVELEDGE" and my spell checker is'nt working tooooo.

It is up to the state. Past forms of voter discrimination were: literacy test, gender, race, poll taxes, property ownership. All these ended with supreme court rulings.

imo
as an ex con
while in prison you should lose the right to vote ,
as you have chosen to live outside the rule of law in that society,
you are sent to prison as a punishment
and part of that punishment is loss of your freedom,
so why should it be returned just so you can vote while serving your sentence,
heck give prisoners anymore freedom and you may as well not send them to prison at all,
in the uk while in prison your under home office rule ,so you do as they say,
so the answer is no

previous offenders should be aloud to vote, not inmates in my opinion. i think that the fact that they have to list their convictions for the last 7 years on job applications is enough punishment after their incarceration. every person should have the right to vote in a democracy, not just those that never went to prison.

In a democracy sometimes a jury will convict a offender... The juror must be legible to sit... a person with a criminal conviction that has been spent..ie.. a period of rehabilitation...will range from absolute discharge carrying 6 months illegibility to serving a prison sentence for more than 2 ½ years which carries total illegibility to serve on a jury.

I think it's a decent qualifier to vote also...

Please bear in mind that this is British law...

true, i never viewed being a "felon" as a form of discrimination but i see that it can be.

I don't know if this has been said already, but here in Tennessee felons meeting certain criteria are allowed to apply for reinstatement of their voting rights. I'm not entirely sure, but I do believe it covers presidentual elections as well.

I feel that voting is a privilege that should be earned, the biggest problem with democracy is that almost any moron can vote. So in my perfect world you should be required to take a very simple no more then 10 questions multiple choice test that asks you to chose the proper definition of several of the key issues for that election. If you cannot correctly identify 50% of them then you don't get to vote in that election. Also if you're caught in prison you should be held to the same standard as everyone else who votes.

Why shouldn't criminals be allowed to vote, they are allowed to run for office.

The whole privilege idea is just a back door to socialism. In my nation we live by the Bill Of Rights. I have a felony record from the early 90's and never had a chance to vote before that but can say that I wouldn't have any way. It was while incarcerated that I began to pay attention to politics and the system, you hear alot about jail house lawyers and finding religion, many times people find political dissent. I registered to vote the day I was released on parole and have voted in every election, federal, state, and local, since then. I have never been asked if I am a convicted felon by any one to do with the voting process.

Once you have paid your debt to society you should be treated the same as every other citizen.

Its been mentioned how here in the states many things that really shouldn't be classified as felony crimes are, well, its a way to control people, think about it when you are a convicted felon there are all kinds of things you can't do other than voting, work for the government, get a professional license, own a gun, work in a bank, work in a school, none of this is determined by what your crime actually was but by the one fact that you have a felony record.
It's an erosion of you rights and real power over you.
So the further they lower the bar the more people they get this power over and hey getting tough on "crime" is always an easy sell to the sheep.

I'm sorry to hear of your plight. The system never forgets and never forgives. They say you paid your debt to society, but the record stays on for the rest of your life.

The more laws you create the more law breakers you have.

dam straight

The U. S. is not a democracy. It is a representative republic. A true democracy is anarchy. In an anarchy one wouldn't have to worry about who is voting because there are no real laws only referendums.


The U. S. is not a democracy, it is a representative republic. The people speak by who is elected to office. A true democracy is anarchy where there are no laws only referendums. Think about the present (March, 2010) main political issue of health care reform. The majority is against it but it still might become law if the elected representatives vote it into law.
Convicted felons are guilty under the present set of laws. If the laws state that you lose your privilege (not a right but a earned privilege) to vote then so be it. What escapes most is that the simple answer to solving this dilemma is: DON'T COMMIT A FELONY.