Yeah it sounds like the name for a Rock band.

In fact in a less than subtle move the UK goverment has just approved the purchase of 10,000 of these little 'peacekeepers' for 'frontline officers'. I wasn't aware there was a 'frontline'. If there is, is it that big it requires 10,000? Did I miss something? Some dramatic increase on the amount of assaults on police officers?

Yes I concede it's been muted for some time however seems an odd coincidence that the normally placid Icelandic people are rioting and a week later news that our national power grid is going to get a drain at the end of every coppers shift as he plugs in his 'peacekeeper' for a recharge.

There have been some very unfortunate deaths assigned to these things and I do worry that it will become the first choice as CS has.

I'm no fan of criminal behaviour but I do worry in this time of spectacularly eroded civil rights, increasing low end social unhappiness ( and with due cause) that this option is being deployed without any debate

If I were the type of person that had no problem shooting people then I'd think I'd be more likely to shoot a copper that had a tazer than one that didn't. Bad move in my opinion.

i remember the first time i found out that cops in the uk didn't carry guns...here it's every one and it just blew my mind that a criminal could carry a gun (albeit illegally) but an officer could not, but i suppose it worked for you...the fact that they have felt the need to arm your officers indicates a rise in violence or resisting arrest, whether that's true or not i don't know, but hopefully, they will not have to use them.

I wouldnt use a gun against a copper. A tazer however, now thats a different matter.... (now wheres my foil-lined "womble's" suit got to...?)

I can see it now, this years fashion 'must have', dolce & gabanna, armani, they'll all be at it


Disturbingly, they are allowed to be used on minors.

The rules of engagement are; they can be used against 'potentially violent offenders', well unless the 'offender' is in a straightjacket and locked up, he's 'potentially violent'. It's a carte blanche. Look out that baby with a rattle in his hand!!

for a laugh you need to goto you tube and search for 'chief constable gets tazered'
LOL both greater manchester and north wales police chief constables get tazered
to prove how safe they are.

then you need to read about how many people this year have been killed
by the RMCP!!!!!!!!
i think they kill on average 1 person a month so far this year.

i stand in the middle ground about these things as coppers
still shoot people dead.no difference if its a firearm or a tazer.
you aint going to live,if you do,you one lucky MF.

Unfortunately this is the same Chief Constable that was found dead at the bottom of a cliff in March.

Sad though his death is it does bring into question his 'judgement calls'

I really hope that this is not the first steps to actally arming a our police force.I mean really arming them..we have already got the old ARV blitzing the neibourhood everyweek now. I think Here in good old Blighty we should keep our coppers unarmed for as long as possible. I fear there would be more deaths and injuries caused by inept officers than by the actual criminal fraternity itself...

Just my opinion of course!..

if my memory serves me right,didnt a manchester armed police officer shoot another
officer dead when practicing at the police range.
inept officer indeed.

on two occasions local to my old town,livestock escaped from the cattle market
and the police 'marksman' called in.
one round from his rifle missed the escapee bull and entered a factory via a window!!!!!
the other occasion he completely missed again and the bull was caught several hours later.

er,this does not fill me with confidence but then again you have a likely chance
of survival if you are confronted my the north wales police marksman!!!!!!

It is a terrible move towards a police state taken along with ID cards. I can understand the logic of the; easier to contain suspects so needs less police on the beat, but possible death to a suspect seems flawed. Policing done correctly does not normally require such drastic tools and questions the training of officers. I am not aware of the stats etc, but firmly believe that such devices will never be a true substitute to real frontline community policing. Taser ho! police will just further breakdown the relationship with communities and in turn lead to non-reported crime saddled with further gang culture.
I hope with in ordering these unpalatable tools that they have thought long and hard about their use and long term effects.

While the chance of death is still out there, I think there is less possibility of permanent damage being done with a tazer than say, a billy club. I'd rather get hit with a brief paralyzing voltage than get whapped in the side of the head a couple times with some laquered hickory.

A digression, or is it a digression? The Old Bill can now enter Parliament, search an MP's office, seize 'evidence' unchallenged and without a warrant.
Well, technically it seems they couldn't. But, what the hell it didn't stop 'em anyway.

Makes me think political activism is back on my agenda

I have read somewhere...can`t remeber where, BBC website a while back I think..! Under new laws that have been rushed through parliament the police can use force to enter a building or office if they believe or have reason to believe that there is illeagal activity or documentation that could or might possibly contain words that can be construed or pertain to illeagal activity..
They only need the permission from a inspector or above..gone are the days of waking magistrates in the middle of the night to sign warrents!

Rapid erosion of civil liberties, I remember watching an arrest last year to 'prevent a breach of the peace'.
I'm old enough to remember and still think you either commit it or don't, not a hypothetical 'you might'. You either breach the peace or you don't.
It's similar to the 'easy arrest' of swearing as a public order offence. If I were to tell a copper I thought he was behaving like a tw*t years ago ( not that I did) I could of got away with that as it was my opinion and not directed at him. The important bit being 'I thought' and he can't claim to be offended by language he hears day in, day out.
Now if I were to tell him the same I can be arrested for language likely to cause offence....this is the best bit.... to a hypothetical person! They don't need to be there, but if they were they might be offended.

I guess we do 'get the democracy we deserve'

rant over.....for now

Personally I think its a good thing, and 10,000 tazers wont go far for the whole of England. You only have to look in the newspapers or on tv every day to see the ch*t the police have to put up with. The use on minors IMO is a good thing too, try going up the local police station any night of the week and look at the minors that have been arrested and how they behave. As they are under the legal age to be sent to jail for their crimes they KNOW that they can get away with anything they like and little or nothing can be done to stop them.

When they are headbutting police women coz they dont want to empty their pockets or be searched after they have beaten up some old lady for her pension money, maybe a quick sap with a tazer will make them think twice the next time.

Its about time we got our country back from the hands of the thugs who have taken the Great out of Britain.

Rant over

Then perhaps the parents should be held more to account. After all, they are the ones responsible for their children........ I'm sure you wouldn't like to see children being randomly electrocuted in the street by some anonymous thugs in uniforms, would you?


....sure, if it doesn't kill them. A clip across the ear by the local bobby used to be enough deterrent, but that was banned years ago

Sadly Charnel the parents of the vast majority of the kids that get arrested around this area couldnt give a flying fig about their kids, otherwise they wouldnt have been arrested in the first place, and even when the parents are called to be told that their kids are in custody say "#$#%$^ that, I aint coming to pick them up".

So obviously with no discipline at home, and none allowed in schools, something really needs to be done and sooner rather than later. And no I dont want to see them randomly electrocuted, but I feel that when they headbutt and punch the arresting officer or some innocent victim going about their own business, that a zap with a tazer is justified, or should we let them get away with assault along with everything else they are allowed to get away with???



I agree with a clip round the ear would work but nowadays the parents would probably sue. The do-gooders got it all wrong banning that and so began the downward spiral of behaviour that brings us to where we are today.

Its time people took responsibility for their actions, and if you dont want tazered, bl**dy well dont break the law. They know what is right and wrong and if they choose to follow the wrong path and get caught they should deal with the consequences. After all its their decision which path they take.

i agree,youngsters are not to blame but the parents are.
the UK is falling apart for respecting ones self and their neighbours.
its a sorry shame that our country has ended up as it has.

our society has broken down and civil decency will never return.

again, i firmly believe our police force has enough 'weapons'
of control and tazers ARE NOT needed.
if some one is that out of control,pepper spray them
and a quick clack of the nightstick to the back of the legs.

if someone is armed and dangerous,shoot them but try and place
the round so they are injured and not killed,unless that person
actually points a firearm at the police officer.
shoot a person in the shoulder with anything more than a .22 round
will immobilize them and they will live.

once some innocent person has died from a tazer or firearm by the police
its too late,you cant bring them back to life and they carry on with their
families.

sorry to go off on a tangent but charles de menzes,the brazilian
chappie who got eight,yes eight rounds in his head because the
police 'thought' he was a terrorist.
the police intelligence was wrong and how long had they been
tailing him.

we need to address the social problems firstly before fully
arming our jackbooted police force.

soz,rant over!!!!!

i agree with you on most of your post izzy and like i said gone are the days of a clip round the ear by the local bobby and so began the spiral to where we are now. it seems too much effort is given to the criminals human rights yada yada, and the victim's human rights are again overlooked. to me that is just messed up.

I didnt know about the tazers being brought in until i read the first post from fellovergen as I guess it aint happening in Scotland, and since they are being brought in without any type of debate, then hell yep, give them a try, we have got to try something, coz all the softly softly we have been doing with criminals for years sure aint working and sadly with the lack of proper parenting the kids committing crimes are getting younger and younger.

We shouldnt be used to seeing pictures in the papers of yet another pensioner being beaten up by juvenilles, or another victim dead by a gang of guys stomping on their heads which seems to be a sick trait amongst the gangs at the moment,(as well as the knives and gun culture of course) but sadly the public seem to be becoming complacent to it all as it happens all too often.

As for addressing the social problems first, yep I agree there too, but to address that we need some type of discipline and if the parents arent disciplined and have no regard for their own children let alone their neighbours it is gonna be a huge uphill battle.

I feel that the clip from the local bobby and the belt/strap/cane in schools never did anyone any harm, and no doubt it will never be brought back, but thats where we went wrong. Kids as young as 3 are being suspended from playgroups / nurseries as they cant behave fgs and because they cant be disciplined in any way or form, they will continue through primary and secondary schools(if they attend), because suspending/excluding them is the only punishment that can be given, and hey, that plays into their hands and what most of them want by this stage.

sorry gone a bit of track but just trying to show what a huge problem there is and its got to be sorted.

so if cs and truncheons dont work well enough with the voilent ones, then i am all for tazers.

its time we were proud to be British again, instead of pussyfooting around young offenders and constant repeat offenders using smart mouthed lawyers (that we the taxpayer pay for) who say he had a hard childhood and that is accepted as an excuse for "little Johnny" terrorising the neighbourhood. enough is enough in my opinion so yep I am all for it

I think thats my rant over for now.....

The recent case of the unfortunate guy who suffered 'suicide by cop' in the grounds of Guildford cathedral. Is that the not the most ridiculous carte blanche for the police going. The old bill decided it was safer ( more expediant) to 'pop a cap in his ass' than negotiate. Shit the bed! where were the tazers then when they could have been useful?
My old dad bless him always maintained that the police were the biggest gang in town and it was for the good with which I agreed, but when the gang become the bullies then there needs to be some form of address


" Actually we thought he may have been carrying a nuclear armed rolling pin that he might have aimed at the chief inspector of the metropolitan police if he had been at his home address during working hours '
They're judging by hypothesis. When were the police the judges?
Kids are kids just ask Charles Dickens. We can't say that aspects of society are wrong and we don't like it so let's electrocute it, well we can and just put One flew over the cuckoos nest on repeat. Dysfunctional child? Labotomys'r'us

when did being proud to be British involve traumatising kids?

And the odd kid ( with no disrespect ) mugging a granny, is that worse than a 'financial advisor' rinsing the blue rinsers of their life savings. I know who's ass I'd shove 10,000 volts up

Personally, i think it's exactly what's needed. Offences that underagers commit can't just be overlooked in the scheme of things. If one of them gets tazered theres no chance in hell they'll want to get tazered again. It's the only way some people learn, and sadly it's becoming a larger amount of people who need this kind of sense dictated to them. I can't see any other way, society (in LOTS of countries) will end up this way altogether if something isn't even being attempted.

The case that it can be lethal is a bad point. Pretty clear there, not much to say about it. However, the oppurtunity is here and i have this feeling these kinda people wouldn't want to take this kind of risk if it's allowed.

Anyone here think they'd continuously try to climb the electric fence instead of passing through the entrance?

How many movies/programs/books etc have you downloaded Harb? Right or wrong thats a mute point. Are not your actions any more/less of an offence to the rules than a teenagers swearing at a copper? The fact that you do it anonymously makes it ok?
Imagine d/l Wall E and the next thing you know your doors kicked in and you get 10,000 volts down your neck for 'breaking the rules'... It's a good film and I'd personally take 5 and a half thousand

You appear to be talking the odd case out of the hundreds of thousands of violent cases that they deal with and yes mistakes can and are made, sorry but thats human nature, and they are, in the majority of cases are taken to task for it IMO.



So are you saying that the violent offenders should be treated with kid gloves? Im not quite sure where you are going with that.



I am not proud to be British anymore, we continually cow-tow to the offender, and we are in a worse state now than ever. Did they show compassion when they raped, murdered, assaulted? NO
They know they are committing the crime so they should face the consequences.

Britain has been compassionate to the criminal for way too long, its time we showed the victims the compassion they deserve and when that starts to happen, then I will be proud to be British again.



When did British kids decide that beating up a granny was right? They are doing the traumatising and making your gran or my gran scared to go out at night. How is that right? It seems you must live in a really nice place coz in most towns and cities, I think you will find that it isnt the odd kid that is beating up people, never mind grannies. Its the norm.

The financial advisor bit, and all the bankers atm, yep I agree but I fear we digress.

Swearing at a cop is a different situation here from my viewpoint. My comment goes out purely to those people who go out and steal purses/wallets, key cars at random and vandalize property and refusing arrest or making it a hard and, at the moment, meaningless attempt to get away (it will happen anyway).

I won't be defending myself as you have a good point at hand there, but would you rather someone keying your car or practically beating to death you/family member or 50 people taking $50 overall what you would have made?

I think I said kids swearing at coppers and not violent offenders, now if that's a violent offender to you then get yer brown shirt out the closet and polish yer knee highs, you're bowing to a trite argument of extremis. I believe in justice, and that's for the courts to decide. That was the point of the thread. The whole Tazer issue is that the police are meting out the punishment, Cs is a sufficient suppressant, tazer is aggressive

The violent people they deal with on a daily basis are aggressive in the first place otherwise the police wouldnt have been called.

Of course people steal, its a fact of life and has been ad finitum. but that's not what tazer is about. And of course as you say they deal with violent people daily so know how to. But the criteria of violent as I've been trying to illustrate during this post is decreasing to 'he looked at me in a funny colour your honour'

Tazer is about civil insurrection, suppression. They don't tazer a burglar, they'll tazer a protestor who disagrees with open cast mining in green belts. They'll tazer people who object to banks taking back their houses because they've lost their jobs. This was rushed through during the present financial crisis.
They'll tazer people who disagree... get ready for a shock

Musta skipped through that part of your sentence, my bad.

CS is sufficient, no doubt. No argument there, but I also believe in justice, and the whole aim of justice is to give criminals whats coming to them. My mates street got keyed 2 weeks ago, every car for about 2.5KM, mostly $50k+ cars. There's no doubt in my mind that if the person or people who committed it were found by the residents, i don't think they would've made it out in any condition better than what a tazer would have caused.

Had the residents knew something would have at least been coming to the kids that vandalised the entire street, especially if they resist, the vandalist would've come out much better and is probably less likely to commit the crime again. Theres just something about electricity that's very persuasive.

edit: i think it should be used more so of a punishment, to clear a few things up.

Good on her I say.



Not sure where you are getting that info from, but havent found it so far.

Blimey , excuse me, Jacqui Smith she who knew nothing about the old bill kicking an Mp's door in, a pillar of integrity.

30,000 coppers fighting knife wielding maniacs? Tarantino would struggle with that scenario, even he'd say it was fanciful

I am only quoting the "Times"

It said training 30,000 officers. Not many in comparison to the English population of 50,762,900. 2006 figure btw

2007 figure is 51,092,000



suppression of the masses???
hardly extremist as you said earlier IMO



whats that got to do with it?



Not quite what they will be used for, me thinks

Is this what will happen if a child in the UK was killed by a police office wielding a tazer? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7769710.stm and http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lan...ticle_id=933717-or would people simply sit back and say "serves them right, they were out of control and needed to be taught a lesson"?

I have no idea what the British public would do, but things like the kids did in Greece is already happening here. Fire crews being stoned on the way to put out fires etc, dont they realise that innocent people can die because of their stupid behaviour.



I took this from the article you linked to. Why were they stoning the police car? Dont the police have a right to defend themselves while under attack. Its sad and unfortunate that one boy died, but he shouldnt have being doing what he was doing in the first place.

Sorry but I for one am sick of the country being namby pamby to thugs who rule the streets.

I'm with you on the namby pamby part Scarlett but shooting somebody dead for throwing stones is a bit much. If it were me that did it I'd be charged with murder.

Yep I know what you mean Hash it is over the top but I believe that the Police in Greece are armed at all times, so IMO they knew the risks they were taking. There is an investigation into it I believe from the link Charnel posted so I guess we will need to wait n see if any action is taken.

Two police officers have been charged over the shooting - one with premeditated murder and the other with abetting him.
Two greek MPs have offered their resignations
University professors said they would now stage a three-day walkout. Schools are closed, banks are burning.....

Apparently The Greek embassies in london and Berlin have been occupied.


-Touche

Unfortunately I fear the latter but perhaps only if it was a white kid IMO. If it was an Asian or African/Caribbean kid I think they're communities for multiple reasons would protest and do so vigorously
An apathy in the white community that has been brought on by an illusion of prosperity has allowed a systematic erosion of civil liberties and a tolerance of this.

No-one here objected to sampling and retaining DNA of all arrestees, we were told it was for the good and blindly accepted
The highest council of the European Court decides quite rightly, it's a breach of our Human Rights.

There will be an inevitable misuse of tazers and a hiding behind the legal veil of 'potentially violent'

I have witnessed over the years a militancy in the police, a penchant for aggressive policing tactics. When a mindset of Zero Tolerance in potentially confrontational situations is the norm it will only end in disaster.

"Your honour he was swearing at me and wielding a doner kebab in a threatening manner"

Thats where English and Scottish law differs as the DNA here is only retained for those convicted of a crime, and not for all arrested.

This post is getting more and more interesting everytime I reread it..I understand scarletts point of view here and would like to think that we would only see Tazars used in the circumstances they were intended for.However I have been on the wrong end of some pretty nasty injustice and its amazing how quickly the ranks close in and defend their own when a injustice or somebody drops the proverbial b*****..I think like this,, some one earlier said that they have seen firecrews being stoned and having thier appliance windows smashed on the way to a shout..They now have cameras fitted in most appliance cabs and when evidence is gained by this get hold of the little swines and give them the birtch..the Leeds birtching stool was closed down in the late 80`s-early 90`s quoting that it was strange and unusuall punishment..is it not strange and unusual to have an 11 year old kid smashing a £250,000 fire appliance up?...or is it now happening on a daily basis?..I believe that all this could be stopped at source..Parents...If I did anything wrong when I was a kid the local beat bobby used to give me a right smack round the earhole then tell my dad who would take the pit belt to my arse so I could not sit down for a day or so!..you might think thats harsh...I think it was the best way of making sure that kids do as they are told and keep order..I only every got the pit belt a couple of times and after that I realized what the consequences were to my bad actions...Giving a copper A Tazer is not going to change anything apart from the fact that the people that they are likely to come up against are going to either arm themselves or fight even harder and take the tazer from the copper and use it on the policeofficer!...Great Thread this one .....

I agree Knightron, amazing coincidental timing with the tragedy in Greece and some interesting opinions bought forward. My biggest concern is that though it's an interesting thread I hope it doesn't become a lead thread due to a tragedy. I hope this drops to the bottom of the list and gathers dust. I somehow doubt it .

I really do wish that things were nipped in the bud at source (with parents) like you say Knightron but sadly parental guidance / responsibility is what has been lacking for years and years now and why the country is in such a state that they now feel there is a need for tazers.

How can you make parents take responsibility, or what can be done to make them take responsibility, because they obviously know their kid is being a pain in the preverbial when they get yet another call from the police saying little johhny has been lifted again.



I hope it doesnt too.

I hope this thread stays where it should be ..right here mate, you made a valid point when you wrote this thread,as you rightly said it was UNINTENTIONAL the post was made at the same time the violence in greece erupted.
There are very few places on the net where you can have a valid and grown up conversation about things that are normally not talked about or considered Taboo..I `m glad to say the Darkside is one of em...




I can remember when the government banned corporal punishment in schools,Then came the namby pamby lefto liberals who tell us that when your kids write all over your walls and start painting your £40 per square yard room carpet you dont tan their backside you sit them down and talk to them..but the kid is 7 years old and...yes but just sit them in the naughty chair for a couple of minutes and it will be alright!..sorry ..sorry....
I know you were thinking I was going off topic..but I`m not..How are kids supposed to learn boundry`s if they are not allowed to be taught that the consequences to their actions might be worse than being told off or being made to sit on a chair ?...

when I was a kid I would`nt dare back chat to anyone older than me other wise they would have given me a clout round the lug hole!....if it had been the locla constable he would have given me a smack round the ear hole and then taken me to my parents and watched them give me a smacked aris!

The Tazars are a reflection on how society is being brought down the childish levels...You can`t even have a good scrap outside a pub anymore because you are arrested and charged with affray!..more than 4 punches is classed as an affray!...mr plod turns up with his tazar and starts Zapping everyboys ar*e with it whats going to happen!....

I will say it time and time again ""This is a step in the very wrong direction""..There is too many opportunities for this to go wrong...I say keep a specialist firearms unit at the main police stations around the country..make sure they are trained by the best...and break glass only in the case of a real emergancy..for the rest of the police on the beat if someone is threatening to use violence towards the copper or anyone else the police officer should be allowed to use what ever means nessassary to quel the person causing the disturbance..If they can not physically do it alone then send two or three to do the job.!
but do not allow the person who has had to be restrained press charges for injuries caused by the means they had to use to arrest the person!

rant over...

Stepping into the shoes of a police officer:

Everyday I leave my home, my family to do a job for which I am underpaid, under appreciated and ostracized. The calls bring me into contact with people at their worst; emotional; violent; psychotic; high; and often more than just one of these. I don't want to kill anyone but in the defense of others or myself, I will. If the other person has a gun then I have no other option than to use mine. However if the other person is wielding a knife, bat, sword or dead animal then I would like to have a non lethal means of disarming/disabling them. If I don't have a Tazer then I will shoot them with my gun. Tazers save lives! You want me to have them because it may be your drunken brawl that I response to and it may save your life.

just found this about the different strengths of tazers being used
by the RCMP

tazers

Interesting article

That piece also states that "In the United States, Tasers are not considered firearms and are legal for civilian use in most states." Scary, I wonder if there are plans for that in the UK? I can the adverts now, "Problems in your neighbourhood? Then get a Tazar and zap those pesky kids away, simply and efficiently"

It also quotes Amnesty International as saying "more than 290 people in North America have died after Taser shocks since 2001. In November 2007, the UN Committee Against Torture released a statement saying "use of TaserX26 weapons, provoking extreme pain, constituted a form of torture, and that in certain cases it could also cause death."

290 people to have died. Thats more than have been killed by terrorist attacks in the same period.


and "A study conducted by the UK Defence Science and Technology Laboratory suggests that the risk [of death] is greater for individuals who have alcohol or drugs coursing through their bodies or who have an existing heart condition." which, in answer to lv. elessar's point above, I would suggest the last thing we need is to see them being used indiscriminately to break up drunken brawls on a Saturday night.





*steps into shoes of a police officer -who hates his job and the lack of thanks and crap pay and the idiots, junkies and low-life's he has to deal with on a day after day basis who would all like to see him dead -and realises there is one seriously f**ked-up head inside that helmet -who certainly shouldn't be armed-up and roaming the streets, "defending the people" but maybe, getting treatment for anger management and social anxiety disorder instead*

I agree there is a risk of death but it's much less than the risk of being shot. Of course if people were actually responsible and did not get in drunken brawls then there would be no risk to them at all. It's not the officer who created the dangerous situation he is the one in charge of resolving it.



You expect the police to not be human? Perhaps you should show them how to cope and remove all emotions from risking their own lives.

i also took the time to view the tazer vids uploaded on youtube and its amazing
how the american cops just use them.
this is what concerns me the most.

i am still not keen on the idea of UK bizzies having them.

cops cover up the illegal killings of the public by the armed response
units,how many covers ups will there be when they start to zap
people with tazers.

I expect the police to be human, not inhuman. I dont want to see emotionally charged (but mentally numb) humans enforcing the law with lethal weapons


Maybe theres a fundamental difference in the ethics and attitudes of the different countries and societies we live in. Some countries citizens believes it has the right to bear arms wheras in others they do not.

Police in the UK generally do not expect for someone at a brawl to pull out a gun in self defence and they can normally handle those situations quite effectively by conventional strong-arm methods although in the States for example things may be quite different and the cops may well expect to be confronted by a firearm every time they encounter the public.

Quite right we have differences but people are people. My point is that I could never do what a cop does, so I will refrain from judging them good or bad. They are humans who have to do a very difficult job that causes enormous amounts of stress. Stress reeks havoc on our physical and mental well being, it can even kill you. Until we reach a point in science when we can either test or teach people how to effectively cope with extreme stress police, soldiers, doctors etc. will continue to have the highest rates of suicide and make errors in judgment that make us all shake our head in disbelief. When you put people in high stress situations they will make mistakes.

Perhaps if these officers were trained better they would be able to cope better in situations that are not normal...I say that all firearms officers should be trained by our very own S.A.S...( Not some bright spark from SO19 at the training college in Hendon)...These guys train hour after hour every day to make sure when they come accross a stressful situation in real life they are able to actually relax and take control...Police men and women in general are not able to cope with situations that even I see at the weekend..you can see them panic if a fight starts..My point is if you get these officers trained to the point where they don`t instantly go for thier gun or baton or tazer in this case they will better be able to evaluate the situation and act accordingly...not just zap or shoot.....yes I take your point that if there was`nt trouble to start with these things would not be needed...but I say this, if you are to have armed officers armed with anything from a gun to a cubaton they should be properly versed in useing them properly and effectively.not willy nilly....I also agree that we need armed police to affect a response to those naughty boy`s and girl`s that want to bare arms against the public in general...but I remember being taught the 6 P`s ...:- Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance...Training- training- training.....