O.K, I posted this here because of the political, religious overtones this subject has. I have done EXTENSIVE research
on these topics. I, personally, have found some truth in this mindblowing shitstorm that's covering us all. My intent on this thread is not to convert or to lead astray anyone at all. I'm just want to see what the masses are thinking besides me. Here are some topics to debate about,

• Face on mars
• The Bilderbergs
• DUMBs (Deep underground bases)
• Bush/Nazi ties
• The Illuminati
• Other NASA coverups
• Other Various sub-topics from above

I will stay away from 911, out of respect. Again, I don't wish anybody to form their opinion on what is being said here, only that you do your OWN research, and there is where the (truth) will lie. Being a USMC/VET, I do love and have honored this country, but there is some things that need to be said. OPEN YOUR EYES.

Admin, if this is a touchy subject, or if you don't approve, I'm sorry for the post and just kill the thread.

Remember, No Flaming or Trolling, Please!

i am very interested in the illuminati do you recomend a book where they explain a lot of things in it? i also heard that there was a dvd about an organisation in america. wich are very powerful. like bush is in that group.

i got really interested in the Illuminati and other Freemasons things because of daan browns books:P ( angels and demons? was the english name of the book i guess?)

I would suggest that you Google or You-Tube video the subject(s) you are interested about. Make sure you set the duration to 20 min or longer, or you will have to click a new part of the info every 10 mins or so. If you want the skinny, you can form your own opinion on www.Project Camelot.com, watch the interviews. You'll have to try to remember there is a little thing called "disinformation", so, don't believe the 1st thing you here, Rather check all the info about a certain subject and then create your own hypothesis.

ty i am going to do this

I'm not really sure how the face on Mars is a conspiracy, certainly a prelude to a sci-fi story but I'm not sure how anyone on earth would benefit by making up or covering up a martian terraform. With that, I dont think it would be possible for NASA to cover up anything because its hundreds of people that are examining data at any given time. The only conspiracy I think might be related to NASA is the lack of good scientific tests done in space; I really do not think studying spiders in zero gravity environments is a good use of however many millions of dollars it cost to get them up there. And, why in the blue hell anyone thought it would be a good idea to land two remote control cars in the middle of BFE on the martian surface. I think a closer examination of the face on mars might have stirred up some public attention for future missions but cruising around rocks and craters seems a bit lame to me...

Not really sure what bilderbergs are.

I wouldn't doubt it if there were secret deep underground military bases; the military does a lot of research on other countries and if we were spying on "enemies" so openly we might come under more scrutiny than is really necessary. There's got to be a reason that no civilian has ever seen area 51 and why its blocked out on most satellite maps...

Kinda wish Bush conspiracy theories or otherwise defamatory libel against him would just stop. Hes far from perfect but for petes sake, he's leaving soon and people are still crying wolf every time he picks his nose...

The Illuminati/majestic 12/etc is a nice conspiracy theory and makes for an interesting novel/movie/game (deus ex) but due to the shear lack of evidence just makes it a bunch of clouded mystery. I think that mystery helps interest people and keep the conspiracy going (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence). This is similar to the freemasons, but is hard to believe in the information age that a small group of people have so much influence of 300+ million people. Though as a double edged sword, it is believable that a small group of people or person can hold so much sway over so many people. (the fake Steve Jobs heart attack)

I think you should try and narrow it down to fewer topics so this can be a real discussion ;)

not much on conspiracy theories--just want to say "Semper Fidelis"

I agree narrow down the # of topics has awesome potential though. As for the face on Mars IMO it is just geoligcal coincidence(or is it ) Bush/Nazi ties? Hadn't heard anything about it intend to check though will definitely be back. If "THEY" Let me.

Semper Fidelis, My brother. As for the other posts, I'm wondering that you are just making un-educated comments
(just on these subjects, of course! no offense, really). or have you actually taken the time to do your OWN research on these topics? I'll bet if you take some time and dig into each subject, you'll find some startling things. Now if you have actually looked into these things and this your view, well share your thoughts on why you feel this way ,cuz for me the evidence that has been presented to me has been staggering. Bearing in mind the disinfo factor , which when I hear or watch this shit, my mission is to disprove the topics, or to find errors. Because I don't want to think this shit is going on but the case for it is weighing heavily. All I'm saying is let's make an educated guess on these topics and continue the thread ina civil manner. Thanks


As for narrowing down the topics, I think I'm well versed in any of these so if anyone wants to pick one to start, we can share views and go from there.

Meant in no way to offend truly will check out the Bush/Nazi thing. But if you really want to know one I have studied since you only want educated discussion "The first moon landing"IMO was completely bogus and created in a film studio. If you are interested in that one let me know. In the mean time I will dig out some of the stuff I have stored away on it. This will probably be fun.

Area 51 is a "Black Ops Facility" and many civilians work there, they are flown in and out each day. Area 54 and 56 are part of the extended Ops as well as the Air Force Plant in Palmdale, CA; Holman AFB in Utah. These are not part of a conspiracy, they are part of DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, DoD. As a CCR contractor, I am still part of the DARPA teaming on the Biodynotics Program - Army after Next. Since the original project was published in the Federal Register, it is not a conspiracy, but it is still a classified project, Top Secret and Compartmentalized.

DARPA replaced the Combat Development Experimentation Command, and compartmentalized individual programs.

The US Government, nor the parallel government have sufficient intellectual or emotional capacity to form a perfect conspiracy. Conspiracies exist in social and emotional scenarios, academic and professional environments, not governments. You elected them, so you must know and have reservations about trusting them, but that in most cases is personal choice, a personal distrust of your own emotions and abilities to discern reality from fantasy, thus it must be a conspiracy. Ancient conspiracies are from lack of data examination. The data exist in books, manuscript and scrolls; they are found in the Library of Congress, English Library of Antiquities, Vatican Secret Archives, Genoa Antiquities Library, Archives of the Mount of Damascus, Gateway City Archives in Western China, Scrolls of the Ancients in Xi'an, China, the verbal books of the Dogans of west central Africa. Travel, read, observe, the answers are there!

# Bilderberg : Potentially dangerous. Im gonna give it the benefit of the doubt about what they do, but there is one thing that is 100% happening there and that is a MAJOR conflict of intrests. And that in turn, if they would have (benefit of the doubt) false intentions, can lead to a potentially dangerous mix of fascist means to an end. Look at the leaked membership lists, if there is a major conspiracy, they have the means to pull it off since there are lots of big bankers involved, there is the polital means to enforce it since there are lots and lots of heads of state ect involved. And last but not least, they have the ways to make us believe what they want since the media is fully covered in bilderberg too. Imo a potentially fascist danger lurking. But...benefit of the doubt, for all we know they wanna make sure we stay safe and healthy.

# Bush-Nazi ties : 100% proven, alltho i have to point out that you cant blame the grandson for the sins of the grandfather. If there is a more weird thing then i think it would have the been the Bush-Bin Laden ties through the Carlyle group pre 9/11. Lets just say the Bush family is one of oportunists. Potentially very dangerous if in power, as we all saw.

# Illuminati : there is enough known about it to proove they exist. There is a lot of discussion about the role they play as a secret society in the circles of power. What i mean is, in how far is their 'master plan' responsible for the events throughout history. That role is under heavy debate. Again, if there really is a 'master plan', again potentially very dangerous if you see the number of members of some 'illuminati' society in positions of power in banks, politics ect.

Why not include 911? I think it's respectfull to try to uncover the truth of why it happend the family's have a right to know why there loved ones were
murderd and by who.
Don't forget ET's and the ufo conspiracy i love that stuff.

9/11 is a bit touchy. People don't want to let it in their minds that it might be a conspiracy.

I think the group you are talking about is the skull and crossbones. Little Bush and Big Bush were both members as well as a lot of other high-up officials. They operate out of Yale University, I don't know the DVD you're asking about though. They call each other bonesmen, and no one actually knows what goes on in there but they do seem to produce a lot very powerful men.

Regarding the 9/11 conspiracy theory: Popular Mechanics did an in-depth study of all the claims.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...842.html?page=5

There were several episodes on TV called "Demolition men" showing how they imploded buildings to make way for new construction. Every segment showed massive jackhammering and concrete removal to expose the steel beams before they could bring it down. The process took weeks or months of preparation.

No observer has even commented about jackhammers or front end loaders at work in the weeks or months before 9/11.

The events of 911 and the official explanation make me very uneasy, especially after watching THIS two part video.

I tell you what Two plus the more i watch vids like that the more I become to despise politicians mate..!..It`s more than obvious that there is more to it than a bunch of halfwits just crashing a plane to try and kill as many "infidels " as possible,As i was watching it just got to the point where there are too many coincidences to just "poopoo" away.I must admit I always thought that conspiricy theorists might just be a bunch of nutters who, like me, hate the political world as it stands now,but after watching things like that I might just have to change my mind!
Thanks for the link chief ...

The Illuminati are the people behind the Federal Reserve bank in America, the Swiss bank, the Bank of England, basically string holders in the world. Rothchild, the richest man in the world, has an estimated wealth of 500 trillion dollars.......jeez, that has to tell you something.

The Bilderberg group is a group of rich and connected people who hold meetings every once in a while, and decide what is going to happen in the world. It is almost like the Geneva convention, but instead of world leaders, and good business men, you have greedy, selfish and well connected assholes to do the decision making. Kings, and royalty are part of this group, as were country leaders, like Tony Blair, Bill Clinton etc.

^^^^^^ Illuminati? What like in the Dan Brown fiction novel "angels and demons?" next thing you'll be telling me about the bogie man!
Might as well as there is no evidence to support such an organization exists!

Thing about conspiracy theories is they have to sound at least plausable yet they tend to involve many levels that mean they become very intricate and complex requiring us to atleast give credence to sometimes ridiculous and far fetched ideas!

I tend to apply Occam's Razor to most!

Then i think about the agendas of those that publish and expound such theories!

I am sure that there must be some of the current theories that hold water........as such, however.........have you noticed that in recent years the sheer volume of conspiracy theories out there has multiplied exponentially!

Ever wonder about that?

Could that in itself be a conspiracy?

I feel entirely secure in giving the advice :- "dont believe everything you read, are told or see through any type of media blindly"

Poke a little deeper and don't rely on One source you can always find a contradictary one!

Watched a documentry type movie called Zeitgeist a while back, touched on many of these topics, including the 911 conspiracy theorie, sure dont believe everything you hear or see but still found it very interesting ..... what if ?

I take your point here Kano.However that can be explained easily.."we as a people just do not thrust those in power over us any more."
It used to be in the 50`s and 60`s that politicians were looked up to and in some cases revered. Its only in modern times that the media has been given the powers ( some would say wrongly..) to investigate and look at what political figureheads are saying and anylising there speeches and actions to see if indeed they have our best interests at heart. As I`m sure you are aware this has been shown "NOT" to be the case on too many occasions for it to be felt that we can trust the powers that be any more..hence the rise in conspiricy theories.
I don`t trust any one who is a government official...especially politicians..

in my local town people are still putting up posters telling others to find out the truth and watch "zeitgeist"

Yup! However I think this is due to people's ability to reach more people via the internet. There have always been people who are either undereducated or have mental disorders claiming the sky is falling, it's just now they are using the internet.

The validity of conspiracy theories comes down to the perspective of the individual….what is real to you may not be my truth.

Well surely we are being told the truth at all turns?


If the talented and excellent people don't do things, then we are destined to be ruled by our inferiors.

Some people walk around oblivious to world happenings.......others like me and a few here look deeper and see the big picture.
It is good to have a open mind.......they want you to have a closed mind while they change the world for their own greed and control.

Thank you Loveslife. I totally agree.

Another thing about 911 how come the government and norad ect were simulating the very thing that happend on
the same day, also Britain's 7/7 when it happend there government or at least part of it were training for a terrorist chemical attack at the same time. To many coincidences, I mean if we could add all the variables up for these events
the odd's of all the events being caused by terrorism alone would in my opinion by astronomical.

I thought this article on the BBC news website is quite fitting for here...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7893890.stm

If we're not careful the rights which are very slowly being ripped from us will leave us in a state of vulnerability so strong that we'll stand no chance of resurrecting our freedom.

I'm with you E.O.A.

I often hear the argument that ‘such a secret cannot be kept by so many people’. I think this is because most folk only consider an idea with what they can relate to. In the last 30 years, we have been encouraged to show our emotions & disclose all. Talk has become cheap. Unfortunately some believe this is true for all time but it isn’t. Folk have the ability to be much more stoic & reserved. Many conspiracies were kept secret during WW2 & common citizens remembered that ‘walls have ears’. Over 10,000 people knew about the atomic bomb, but that was successfully kept secret. Just look at the British Royal family & how they still hide their emotions away – these are the types we’re dealing with, not your gossiping next-door neighbour.

Not only is their mentality different to ours, most folk cannot perceive who these people are & how they live. Rothschild’s 500 trillion lifestyle is simply unimaginable. Such families keep to their own kind, on their own land & islands, using their own planes. Their ability to influence others with that amount of money is incredible. For example, Rothschild alone has the ability to invest in a company, using his complicated network of businesses, then whip his money out at any given time & watch the company crash (I believe something like this happened to HBOS so that Lloyds could take control of a massive 25% of UK mortgages). This power has given him influence & control over big business, governments & most importantly, the MEDIA. If anyone is keeping a secret it’s the mainstream media who are clearly not at liberty to report on them. Ask yourself why you have never heard of the Bilderberg meetings - how is it possible that such a high-profile event with Royalty & world leaders rarely gets in the news? The little footage we have is telling - where are all the photographers??

Aside from mainstream news, in actual fact this conspiracy is not a secret at all. Eisenhower, Kennedy, Bush Sr, Obama, Blair & Brown have all spoken openly about it, as have many leaders of governments – former Italian President Franseco Cossiga told the respected Italian newspaper ‘Corriere della Sera’ that intelligent agencies all over the world know very well that the CIA & MOSSAD were behind 9/11.

It is not a secret, it's as obvious as Palin & WTC7. Yet most folk simply cannot process the enormity of it.

Well said and about people grasping the enormity of it true,because they are to busy living their lives which they think is so great,TV'S reality shows keeps them entertained........are we to fat to thin happy in marriage happy in our job....big houses big cars.....spend spend spend and now the economy has collapsed and people
once again can't process it and believe what they are told.....Einstein would be confused by it all ...that's what they want to control us.

Show me your evidence guys otherwise you are just preaching your own religion.

By their very nature, not easily proveable Iv.

Below taken from the Collins English Dictionary.


conspiracy theory
n the belief that the government or a covert organization is responsible for an event that is unusual or unexplained, esp. when any such involvement is denied


English Collins Dictionary - English Definition & Thesaurus

I agree twoplus but I don't need proof just logical evidence. Otherwise how is it any different then asking me to believe in god? Why do people believe what they have no knowledge or evidence of? Because it fills their individual needs and makes them feel better. Sounds just like religion to me but instead of an imaginary omnipotent being in control you have a imaginary sinister group of people above the law in control. The modern day devil if you will. A belief takes no effort but an education requires much effort so it is no surprise to me that many settle for beliefs.

Well said.......meds are meds reguardless what you are taking them for

Hmm so the governments of the world don't lie and we are all told the truth. Ok hears something. After the dust had settled when the towers were hit knowing full well that the air was unfit to breath because of harmful asbestos levels
still present, stated by the heath officials, everyone was told to go home and that it was safe for them to do so.

Another one is that gulf war syndrome doesn't exist and yet hundreds of service men came back after the first gulf war
sick and there getting sicker. It was denied for years by the American government but by persistance by the sick servicemen and there families led to court cases where they are fighting now for the truth to come out, That the
medication that they were given to protect them from biological and chemical attack actually made them sick.

Agent orange in Vietnam used to strip the leaves and vegetation from the trees so the soldiers could see the enemy
gave many of them cancer and resperatory illnesses that eventualy killed some of them. Were we all told the truth?
Does a lie equal a conspiracy?

Alot of people who believe in conspiracies are educated and have done there homework before they say something of the top of there head.

No sure if this helps to prove anything, but recently I was visitng my grand fathers grave and something caught my eye. About 20 plots over there was a headstone with the word "Illuminati" enscribed in caligraphy. There were two people listed on the marker and they were both male, but didn't share the same last name. They both had the same date of death and it has been there since 1940.

What do you guys make of this?

No, see yellow definition above.



No, but that does not define conspiracy.



Show me your evidence. I know the ill effects these actions have caused, but why do I know them? Because the studies that found the evidence was funded and released by the US government. I think you are confusing a lack of evidence with the intent to mislead. There is a belief that the government knows everything and does harm to it's people intentionally, what people don't seem to comprehend is that the government is the people.



Really? At what point do you receive the title of "educated"? In total I have over 19 years of education, am I educated? My current study is medicine, am I qualified to judge air quality, carcinogens or gulf war syndrome? No, only specialists in those fields have those qualifications and they rely on empirical evidence from peer reviewed studies. These studies can take years to develop, conduct and analyze. So when someone puts forth a conspiracy theory with no evidence they have settle for a belief instead of an education, because if they were educated about the theory they proposed then empirical evidence from a peer reviewed study would be present.

As in religion people are free to believe what ever they want. However don't ask me to believe, I prefer an education, show me the evidence.

I agree that medical evidence is the best judge; and after speaking with many returning physicians from Iraq, the leading cause of illness and the cause of the high suicide rate is the radiation sickness from the munitions; if one looks at the modality of action of radioactive materials, and then observes several hundred cases of "Gulf WAR Syndrome" they will discover the probable cause of at least the majority of the illness experiences by the veterans.

When VA Hospitals treat the veterans with anti-radiation treatments and heavy metal toxins, the veterans get better. When they don't the symptoms persist and get slowly worse. It may not be the only answer, but at least a few can be saved by this medical modality.

If People are returning from the front lines with radiation sickness why are there only a few cases of it known?.(radiation sickness I mean..).I understand that the depleted uranium and plutonium shells they use are the suspected cause ,but why are there not more cases if it really is radiation?..Every human being is effected by radiation sickness if it causes problems for one then it would cause problems for all.If GWS is infact caused by radiation why are the Iraqi people not complaining of it? Radiation sickness in the sense as is implied in the Gulf war syndrome cases, does`nt seem to corralate with the persons complaining of GWS! certainly not in the number of complainants!....When the first invasion of the Persian Gulf occoured in 1991 to retake kuwait, they gave British service men untested vaccines for alsorts of percived "possible" Bugs and maladies..when they returned the first time loads of our troops were complaining of various un quailfied and unquantified illnesses that were unexplainable except for the "fact " that they were all given the same vaccines, insome cases on the same day in the same Barracks hospital Quarters..It Has "in my opinion" to be something to do with the vaccines they have been testing in the pirbright labs for years..as we all know it can take months and years for any sort of vaccine to hit the hopitals and doctors sugeries, so how did they know what vaccine to give the troops and in what quantities?..very strange indeed..!

A link for "some"

Denial of involvement to me is equal to a lie. It's like this if i pushed someone in front of a train, i mean i would'nt (would i) and then i say i did'nt then, i have a lot of freinds who then say also that i did'nt do it no one
saw me then the authorities could'nt prove it, that is a conspiracy of sorts and it is still a lie. Absence of truth does'nt equate to truth itsself.

I get it it's like show me the money, but a conspiracy is'nt like god where there is nothing tangiable to grasp on to
there is lots of speculation and rumour that much i conceed to but at the heart of many conspiracy's, not all of them, there is a core of truth, facts, that don't go away over time.

Building 7 of the world trade center was profesionaly demolished Larry silverstine who owned it said this himself
quote 'i gave the order to pull it' Then later tried to twist the truth by saying he ment pull the fire fighters out of the building. Hang on at the time he said this the building was already empty.
Look at the way the building collapsed from the middle.It was'nt that badly damaged some fire damage for sure
but it had'nt been hit by any large pieces of debries from the world trade centers, burning buildings don't just collapse like
that, they can be gutted or the front of some of the floors can fall off but to just fall like that no way.
The expression pull it generaly means to demolish a building and it's clear in this context that's exactly what he ment.

So what right, the building was done for why not pull it? It takes days at least from what i saw on discovery to
prepair a building for a controlled demolition which means there were already explosives in the building and if there
were explosives in one building there could have been explosives in another. People who were coming down of world trade center 2 including fire men said that they heard explosions in the lobby after the second plane hit the building and said it was as if a bomb had gone off in the lobby there was damage there which was'nt ther before even when the plane had struck the building.

I don't think for a second that the american government is not capable of doing something like this after all they already tried to do it before in 1993.

God is surrounded by speculation, rumor and has people that claim their is a core of truth and facts that don't go away over time. In reality your misusing the words truth and facts because both require validation. If truths and facts are validated then it's not a conspiracy because these are accepted by the mainstream into the account of the incident.

Simply put if valid facts exist it's not a conspiracy because they were not covered up. By definition you have to admit you have no valid facts because they are being covered up which ask everyone else to believe your belief exclusively on your say so.

That was very well worded but... It is a fact that building 7 was demolished and that lary silverstine orderd it
'pulled' and then lied and conspired to cover up the truth. belife is what you get when you don't have fact's to back it up
but i saw the interview with an American new's chanel and i bet if i google it i could find it.

The issue of whether it's a conspiracy after the fact's become public knowlage are based on admitance, see Mr larry
silverstine still holds fast to his latter explanation when it's obvious to most everyone who saw him say pull it that he
ment just what he said. Every one in the government who still allude to the building falling from fire damage are still conspiring togeather with mr silverstine to contest the reality of the situation this vallidates the fact that this is still a conspiracy and not just a belife in one.
Hears the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYaUeGvYYxc

You should have kept googleing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43F54hR0NW8

I did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mvDcgf3x3I

;-)

Check out these sites ...

informationliberation

Illuminati

Prison planet

May I suggest if you are interested in the Bilderberg group to watch Alex Jones's The Obama Deception and anything else by Alex jones as well.. You could also try to watch some David Ike stuff.

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

Bet my googleing will put yours to shame.



...still no valid facts.

So....The USA is the only country where not one, not two, but three steel framed buildings collapsed......And all in one day?

Similar buildings have burned for days and not collapsed.

I already put my link here previously....for anyone not brainwashed that is.

Molten steel days after the event..

911 the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on a free nation.

Better chance the bible is true...

Slam those with beliefs that can't be proved false but choose to believe the opposite of what has been proved.

Suppose you would all have different beliefs if it was your relative who died trying to save others...easy to claim people you don't know are part of a conspiracy.

Once again no supported evidence from anyone. Normally I don't mind when people have beliefs but this is comparable to disbelief in the holocaust. I wonder if you don't realize or don't care that your belief that Americans conspired to kill Americans injures people who have already suffered enormous loss? I guess it's a lack of care after all their not your relatives.







http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm